Talk:Celtic Born (5e Race)

Musicus Meter Score: 7.5-8

This race has a score of 7.5-8 according to the Musicus Meter race guidelines. With this metric, first-party races' scores range from 4.5 to 8. This is a guideline, not a rule, and it's important to use your own judgment alongside this scoring.

This scoring may be the groundwork for a focused {{needsbalance}} usage. A contributor to this page may request a detailed breakdown of this page's balance. Without this information, {{needsbalance}} may then be removed. This meter cannot be the sole basis for a needsbalance template, but may be included as an accessory to a wider discussion of a race's balance.

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--ConcealedLight (talk) 08:46, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

Featured Article Nominee

— This article became a featured article! —ConcealedLight (talk) 00:31, 19 August 2018 (MDT)

I believe this race has the potential to be a featured article. I am nominating this page as a featured article, I've looked at it myself and I believe it stands a very good chance though other users may notice some issues before its approval. As normal this page needs to be supported, commented, or opposed from within the community, and double checked for confirmation to featured article formatting and content standards by someone who will then let us know how well it meets these criteria. ConcealedLight (talk) 06:55, 26 January 2018 (MST)

• Support: As per above, this race is a neat alternative to the standard human with flavourful/ historically accurate lore that meshes well with the first party content. --ConcealedLight (talk) 09:01, 6 May 2018 (MDT)

• Support: I find the race flavorful and balanced. I changed the name of Grit to Brave since that's the keyword used for Halflings and grit/grit points are associated with gunslingers classes. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 10:51, 1 May 2018 (MDT)

• Support: I will admit, I was originally going to oppose this because I always hate seeing when someone tries to make a new human. However, I was pleasantly surprised seeing this and can now gladly support this as a featured article nominee :).--Cotsu Malcior (talk) 10:20, 22 June 2018 (MDT)

• Oppose It was recently pointed out that featured articles need distinct traits ¹. Celtic Born has none.BigShotFancyMan (talk) 06:37, 7 May 2018 (MDT)

Did some reoiling, tweaking and swapped in a better engine. Will touch up the paint job(lore) later. --ConcealedLight (talk) 08:46, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

Fluff looks good. I’m concerned about that new engine, Ancestral Link. I do like it but concerned that it is much too like a feat, even if the benefits last only a minute. I think, just me, the movement speed overdoes the trait. Woodland bond is a new issue. I overlooked its weakend Speak with Animals even though I think it would have done the same thing as the spell; but adding plants I think pushes the trait too far. Speak with Plants is Level 3 spell and I believe this trait would accomplish similar tasks. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 09:39, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

Ancestral Link is based on the assimars transformative ability and the Woodland bond is a tweaked version of the Firebolg's Speech of Beast and Leaf but with near unconditional advantage swapped out for being able to communicate back. --ConcealedLight (talk) 09:51, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

Ah, thanks for the examples! I’ll stick to my guns about removing the movement speed then. Aasimar subrace do the extra damage and add something usable outside of combat. (Not saying you can’t use them in combat, but it also applies outside of it). The unconditional advantage is much different than at will two way communication that a level 1&3 spell provides. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 11:43, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

I know my first party racial traits :P. In regards to Ancestral Link, when I was thinking about how I'd change things up I was specifically looking at the Protector Aasimar's Radiant Soul trait which grants a flying speed of 30 feet - crazy good for pre-level 5 - which I didn't want so I felt that granting a speed boost of 10 feet would be neat and play off the adrenalin pumping spirit channeling vibe. If you still don't like it I don't mind downing it to a plus 5 increase in movement speed. Let's compare the gnomes Speak with Small Beasts, Speech of Beast and Leaf, Woodland Bond, speak with animals and speak with plants so we can get a better idea of things here and visuals are nice.

Speak with Small Beasts

• simple one-way communication with beasts

Speech of Beast and Leaf

• one-way communication with beasts/plants
• advantage on all Charisma checks to influence — Persuasion, Deception, Intimidation, Performance.

Woodland Bond

• limited two-way communication with beasts/plants

Speak with Animals

• allows two-way communication with beasts

Speak with Plants

• allows two-way communication
• imbues limited sentience in plants
• imbues limited animation in plants
• forces compliance without a save throw
• creation/removal of plant-based difficult terrain

Looking at the breakdown of benefits, the third level spell, speak with plants is still clearly better than all others before it and that Woodland Bond is no better than the Speech of Beast and Leaf. Unless I'm missing something... Thoughts? --ConcealedLight (talk) 22:59, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

Nice breakdown of similar “stuff”. I think you laid it out pretty well, and Woodland Bond doesn’t quite have the benefits of Speak with Plants. Perhaps the trait is fine and I’m just a skeptic? For Ancestral Link, I didn’t mean to imply I don’t like the benefits, just the package in which it is all bundled. Even if the movement is reduced, which I think is a fair thing to do, it still gives a potential 20hp shield minimum and extra damage. I wish there were more conversation on this trait because from my angle it just seems too good for a race gaining skill proficiency, advantage vs a condition, and extra hp with good subrace traits. It’s a 3rd level trait? Roll the dice and have some fun. If it’s ever test played and issues arise, hopefully things get changed. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 00:33, 22 May 2018 (MDT)

• Comment: Honestly, I don't really have strong feelings for or against this race. While I won't vote for them, I can't really vote against them either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Varkarrus (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

• Comment If the image is to be displayed on the Main Page then it needs to be locally uploaded. --Green Dragon (talk) 10:37, 13 March 2018 (MDT)

Finally got around to it. --ConcealedLight (talk) 15:27, 1 May 2018 (MDT)

• Comment when i hear celtic i think of the YUGIOH card celtic guardian which is why i like it.--Alucarddragonborn (talk) 12:43, 2 May 2018 (MDT)

• Comment Concensus has been reached, and this featured article nominee may be approved. --Green Dragon (talk) 22:46, 6 May 2018 (MDT)

It seems not with Blobby and bsfm recent comments. Since they came after this comment will they be included in the consensus or not? --ConcealedLight (talk) 03:23, 8 May 2018 (MDT)

I'll extend the duration of this FAN by a month then until concensus has been reached. --ConcealedLight (talk) 08:46, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

Good idea. The last edit I think helped a lot and a month should be enough time for those that are interested to weigh in. Thanks CL. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 09:39, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

• Comment I believe the subraces and their place in society is could be greatly expanded, as currently PC's just belong to a subrace with next to no info on how each subraces place in society differs. Besides that, I agree with BigShotFancyMan, the race itself doesn't really do anything new.--Blobby383b (talk) 11:11, 7 May 2018 (MDT)

• Comment Sorry CL, I love you, but I agree with Blobby and BigShot; the race doesn't really do anything mechanically interesting and flavor-wise is literally just a specific culture of humans. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 10:29, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

I didn't see that you added Ancestral Link, so my point about mechanics doesn't really hold water, but my point about flavor still stands. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 10:36, 21 May 2018 (MDT)

• Comment I have been working on expanding the subraces and their place in society - this is not finished yet, but I'd like to see how everybody feels about the current direction I am taking them in and if this is acceptable. I am currently awaiting CL to have some more free time to help me flesh out some more unique traits and mechanics. - ConcealedWife 21:08, 21 May 2018 (GMT+1)

I think the direction is taking a good turn. I recommend to add a hard-line societal tribe structure based on different tattoos, to distinguish their game integration with humans. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:16, 4 June 2018 (MDT)

Extention. - Due to the current positive standing of the race and the continued effort to improve, this pages nomination will be extended for an additional month until it has reached an acceptable point for succession as agreed above. If it doesn't it will fall under standard rulings. —ConcealedLight (talk) 02:02, 26 June 2018 (MDT)

Comment First Warpaint increase the speed to 35ft at 1st level, so shouldn't the speed stat say 35ft?

At one point the trait scaled, [see here]. I like the nerf CL made. I think removing the trait would be the right thing to do since the base race has Speed of 35 feet. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 18:48, 18 August 2018 (MDT)

• Comment Concensus has been reached, and this featured article nominee may be approved. --Green Dragon (talk) 08:59, 16 August 2018 (MDT)

awesome! BigShotFancyMan (talk) 18:48, 18 August 2018 (MDT)

It's nice and cleaned up now as well. I always forget how to do this so give me second to refer to the logs. —ConcealedLight (talk) 00:01, 19 August 2018 (MDT)

Comments

Running this with a few other classes in a homebrew campaign, with people who have little to no experience with the system. This character has balance, and because of that, one player has figured out how to absolutely break it. Ran by me a homebrew class, that offsets Ancestral link, all in all fun.- Cransiosis (talk) 15:17, 9 April 2019 (MDT)

I've moved this comment down because it broke the miscus meter up into two parts. -- ᴄᴏɴᴄᴇᴀʟᴇᴅᴡɪғᴇ (Contributions) (Squa) 11:55, 11 April 2019 (MDT)