Talk:Fēnglì De Xīyì Rén (5e Race)

— This article did not become a featured article. —ConcealedLight (talk) 15:14, 27 November 2018 (MST)
Please feel free to re-nominate it once it meets the FA criteria and when all the major issues brought up in this nomination have been dealt with.

Featured Article Nomination

I nominate this page as a featured article. It may require some touching up but I believe it to be balanced and well written. As with other nominations, this needs to be supported, commented, or opposed from within the community, and double checked for conformation to featured article formatting and content standards by someone who will then let us know how well it meets these criteria. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:48, 4 May 2018 (MDT)

• Support per above, I think the article was thought out and well written. It hasn't had any major edits for a couple months either. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:48, 4 May 2018 (MDT)

• Oppose I think there are better, more interesting races that could be nominated then this. The oh so typical, "We are the most perfect/ideal race option" is as overused and as dull as it sounds especially with there being far better executions of it available on the wiki. Then on a mechanics level, there is no distinct traits or features other than the questionable ability to wield a two-handed weapon and a shield. Finally, the name of the race itself, while not going against the naming scheme is going to be difficult for any of the less Eastern inclined people to understand or pronounce, even myself being from an East Asian nation frown at the prospect of having to say this races name out loud. At best I'd say this may be a QA article, but it doesn't come close to any of the current Featured Articles and pales in comparison to the other current nominees. --ConcealedLight (talk) 08:50, 4 May 2018 (MDT)

There was a lot more written than the one line "considered an almost perfect race"...

I wasn't aware distinct traits or features were necessary for featured articles

There's a pronunciation "guide" in the description, but hardly seems reasonably to discredit an article based on a name

All in all, an interesting review. Thanks for taking the time to weigh in. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 09:09, 4 May 2018 (MDT)

I've acknowledge the need for races to have distinct features. I don't think there is much I can do about the other comments though I think my responses are appropriate for them. Cheers BigShotFancyMan (talk) 20:24, 9 June 2018 (MDT)

• Comment. How many attacks can this race make as an attack action? One two handed weapon, the secondary slot, and a tail attack? --Green Dragon (talk) 09:14, 18 June 2018 (MDT)

RAW, a PC with more arms can't make more attacks unless you are two weapon fighting, as the attack action explicitly states you can only make 1 attack with a weapon. The race can however almost always hold a shield for +2 AC over what a regular race gets when fighting with a two-handed weapon, when two-weapon fighting, or even when holding a two-handed ranged weapon and single handed melee weapon among all sorts of other powerful combinations.--Blobby383b (talk) 09:39, 18 June 2018 (MDT)

What sorts of powerful combos do you mean? I see avoiding bonus action to switch between weaponry, but powerful has a certain meaning to me. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:50, 20 June 2018 (MDT)

• Oppose While having multiple arms is different, more often than not it is an unbalancing factor in races, especially when they can hold multiple weapons and other useful items. Besides that, race names are not capitalized, the race is lacking in certain background areas such as the history and society, and the race's traits don't fit into the background of the race. How was the race created? Being a peaceful race, does the race have a recorded history? How does the race/society interact with other races? How do individuals of the race react without the presence of an Alpha/Beta? Also, if you were to just look at the race's traits, the race looks like it was entirely made to be proficient in warfare (why else would the race need 4 arms) yet the race as a whole doesn't reflect that. Overall, the race is quite lackluster and could use some significant work in making the description and traits more unique while making them fit better together.--Blobby383b (talk) 10:17, 18 June 2018 (MDT)

I am confused how the traits don't reflect the lore/descriptions. I can provide quotes from the text to support the traits if needed. I am also not sure how having four arms makes a race "a warfare" race. I'm also interested in traits that fit better together. The OP has made some changes, but these other things are hard to address without some more information. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:47, 20 June 2018 (MDT)

The race is described as being tall, sleek, and bony, their tail acts as a fifth appendage that in dexterous, and despite the race's lore stating that they have very strong legs, only jumping is tied to strength while running, swimming, and walking along walls implies they are more dexterous/have a thin frame so a Dexterity ability score increase fits better. As for the arms part, there really isn't any reason for the race to evolve to have 4 arms besides holding more weapons in combat plus having more arms also makes them less aerodynamic in water. The darkvision doesn't fit the race's lore of being coastal dwelling creatures, and the increased amount of time that you can hold your breath, while fitting the race's lore, emphasizes again that the race didn't live deep underwater to warrant darkvision. Despite this, I would like to hear your take on how the race's traits do fit the race and/or whether I am misunderstanding something.--Blobby383b (talk) 09:15, 20 June 2018 (MDT)

I'll just throw out that darkvision is part of the preload and I think this decision is poor as I believe new users think the trait to be automatic without consideration for a races strength/balance. So, I would opt to have it replaced on this race because yes, there's nothing for it. (and a discussion or anyone that agrees with this comment to remove it from a wiki wide used template)

I think I am open minded to a users take on a different benefit for a body type, but also, I find running, swimming, and walking Str related but we'd be splitting hairs over opinions and RL applications to D&D. Besides, I don't think there's anything that states tall and sleek requires a Dex ASI, and I also support a Str ASI because four arms would seem like reason to be stronger. Four arms may be less aerodynamic for swimming but that's what that thing sticking out the arm is for :p and if I may, what reasons are there to not have four arms? You see no reason to have them but I see no reason not to have them. And I specifically left out evolved because I am under the premise the creatures were made this way. I added the extra breath to fit in with an aquatic lifestyle of hunting underwater. I think the core rules provide ample time to find food but I wanted a more unique and flavorful thing to showcase their swimming strength. It isn't a trait for underwater civilization, rather highlighting their aquatic hunting skills. So, I see all the traits mentioned at least once except for darkvision which I shared those thoughts. I am glad to have heard your thoughts. In addition, from a personal outlook, I try to base a race on the lore and their traits. The moments when a player picks a race for traits and goes against lore would be the situations the verbiage allows for outliers. ("Such and such are almost always this") AND a little sidenote, I do not wish to imply you are not open minded to users. My comment explains the way I view myself about the situation. I hope that it isn't taken in bad faith. :) BigShotFancyMan (talk) 10:04, 20 June 2018 (MDT)

All is good, it is just good to hear other's opinions on how the race can be improved. As for the choice of what the ability score increase should be, I still think it shoud be Dex, but in the end whether being a good swimmer and hunter is more Dex or Str is a matter of opinion, so I don't really have too much more to say about the matter. As for the rest of the race, I will try and summarize several points on how the current state of the race can be improved upon.

• Add how the race was created. The race can be created by a god for a specific reason, the race can be a distant relative of another race, or the race can be evolved from another lesser creature. Adding a reason as to why the race has 4 arms would help as well.
• Replace darkvision with 1-2 more interesting/thematic traits. Some ideas I have is to give them proficiency in vehicles (water) and make them naturally adapted to frigid water, as described in chapter 5 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.
• The only part of having 4 arms that is unbalanced is getting the benefits of a shield when you regularly would not(which is extremely powerful). To solve this issue, the Four Arms trait could have the added property "When you are holding items in three or more of your hands, you do not gain the benefits of a shield, as it becomes impossible to block effectively when you are focused on doing other things."

Finally, the race needs a random height and weight table and suggested characteristics tables.--Blobby383b (talk) 15:54, 21 June 2018 (MDT)

• Comment The Darkvision trait is still there, shall I remove? With Strong Tail instead of giving it a flat unchanging amount it can lift, carry, or drag it should be related to your carrying capacity, given that a standard person will have 12-13 str they will have a carrying capacity of 180-195 pounds, so you could say that the tail has half your carrying capacity, which seems a little excessive to me, a 1/4 or 1/3 sounds more reasonable. -- Babosa (talk) 22:40, 9 August 2018 (MDT)

I just implemented some of the proposed changes such as the removal of darkvision since it didn't fit the race and changing the Strong Tail carrying capacity to 50lbs for now, as having it tied to your carrying capacity doesn't sit well in my mouth for some reason(the rounding maybe?). Besides that, I still believe the race needs the various other things I mentioned in my comment above before it can be called a completed.--Blobby383b (talk) 23:52, 11 August 2018 (MDT)

• Comment With strong tail instead of saying it can be used as a weapon wouldn't it be more appropriate to say you can make unarmed attacks with it which gain the reach property because it is a natural attack. -- Babosa (talk) 23:12, 15 August 2018 (MDT)

• Comment This race is progressing very well. With a little bit more fluff about how they are created (see above), and maybe also how they would join other adventurers since they are an island folk (pre-storyline integration) the text should be complete. Why are their no subraces though? Maybe one focusing on scavaging and one on clan leadership would be appropriate. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:42, 8 November 2018 (MST)