Talk:3.5e Races

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To Do[edit]

  • Verify that each race has its categories set correctly: SIZE, TYPE, SUBTYPE, and LA.


Could you lock the Neko? I think this is the place, right?

I will lock the Neko, but you were supposed to say this in the Neko's Discussion tab. No worries however. --Green_Dragon

Should this be changed?[edit]

Because this is longer than 45K, and many browsers have problems editing it correctly, should all LA +0 be moved to their own page, all the LA +1 moved to their own page, etc? I think this might solve the problem. Ideas? --Green Dragon 14:12, 12 June 2006 (MDT)

Perhaps we should divide them by alphabetical order? Would make it a bit less... Biased in a way against the Higher LA Races. People sometimes don't like the higher ones, and would be more helpful to get the people's ideas out to people... LA would be such a small page as well.--Pz.Az.04Maus 14:15, 12 June 2006 (MDT)
I was thinking about alphabetical order... but, people do not want to browse through races, just to find one that works, they would rather look for the LA they want, and go from there. Although, the problem with LA is that the LA +0 and LA +1 might get to big.... We need to think of something. --Green Dragon 15:46, 12 June 2006 (MDT)
One thought on shrinking the page a bit, and adding to the organization - grouping subraces into a single heading which opens to it's own page. The catgirls, for instance. Does each subrace need to be listed separately on this page, or could we have a Catgirl link, and mention there are several subspecies in the Overview here, then have the individual subraces overview on the Catgirl page itself? Same thing could be done for variants of the PHB races - all Elf subraces could have the overview on their own page, all the Dwarf subraces on their own, etc. I ask because I have a couple of races myself with subraces - grouping them would only create two entries on the first page, listing them all would add about 10. Also, can someone explain to me the "Race Groups" at the bottom of the page? Is that for groups of people working on a particular race, or is it akin to the suggestion I just made, just in its own section? --Oneiros 11:35, 24 June 2006 (MDT)
Okay... The upper list is for all the races, and I want it to stay that way. The bottom is for racial groups, like a list of all the catgirls on D&D Wiki, just so if you are looking for all the catgirls you do not need to look through everything to find them, then miss one or two. Anyway, I think we need to make this shorter and finish it. So, could seomeone please finish this (with the Description, LA, etc)? And could someone please make these into LA groups (LA 0 one page, LA 1 another page, etc)? Tell me if you can, thanks. Also, I hope I made sense. --Green Dragon 06:16, 28 June 2006 (MDT)
I created links for the LA groups and I'll break the list up to their own separate pages. That means the "All Races" list on this page essentially goes away, correct? --Oneiros 07:32, 28 June 2006 (MDT)
Yes, that is correct the all list goes. Although, I see that you already did that. Thanks. --Green Dragon 06:30, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
Level Adjustment-based pages done. Also, I went through and tweaked the race tables alot to remove redundant formatting. The overall page sizes have dropped, so that should allow the LA 0 page to expand quite a bit before we get into editing problems again. --Oneiros 08:27, 28 June 2006 (MDT)
Good, it looks very good how it was done (although for new wiki-users categories are confusing....). I hope it will work well. The only problem, as I can see, is that it is very hard to add a new race if you are new to wiki format.. We need to fix that with this:
Play around with this box and see if you can find a good way to make it work. Thanks so much for doing all this. --Green Dragon 06:30, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
'Kay - another Wiki challenge for the novice. The new Race Input Box is in place. How'd I do? :) --Oneiros 10:16, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
Okay... I did not want it on 3.5e Races at all, I wanted it on all the other pages. Could you add it to them and get rid of it from 3.5e Races? The reason for this is I want 3.5e Races simple but the other pages to have all the information. Your opinion on this? --Green Dragon 04:22, 4 July 2006 (MDT)
Done. Though one other option would be to add a simple link on the 3.5e Races page that would take a user to an Add a New Monster Page where the input box could live by itself. --Oneiros 13:17, 5 July 2006 (MDT)
I like that idea more, could you do that please? But make the link on the top of the page. Also, The link should go to Add a new Race to D&D Wiki, or you can decide the name. Thanks in advance --Green Dragon 03:47, 9 July 2006 (MDT)
Done.--Oneiros 10:06, 10 July 2006 (MDT)
Could you add that to every page that is linked to be 3.5e Races and all the LA pages? I already did it to Category:User Races, just make it look like that and put it on all. Thanks so much. --Green Dragon 13:28, 11 July 2006 (MDT)
Okay... all of the Unknown LA creatures are done except some I thought merited discussion. I also coverted all of the Level Adjustment group pages to actual Categories, so they wouldn't clutter up the Articles listing for 3.5e Races. That means the old article pages should be deleted. Sorry about that. Still expanding my Wiki skills :) Now I'm going though all the races to add categories to them based on Type/Subtype.--Oneiros 14:04, 29 June 2006 (MDT)
Good, and it seems to be working well. Thanks for doing all this, it really needed to get done. Thanks. --Green Dragon 06:30, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
There are a couple of race pages which are locked and so they didn't get appropriate Category tags. Just FYI.--Oneiros 10:16, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
Could you give me a list please, so I could change them? --Green Dragon 04:17, 4 July 2006 (MDT)
Lapruni (3.5e Race), Neko (3.5e Race) and Kitsune (3.5e Race) --Oneiros 15:41, 5 July 2006 (MDT)
I hope I did them right, how do they look? Do they need to be changed? --Green Dragon 03:54, 9 July 2006 (MDT)
Looks good to me. Humanoids usually have a subtype, but none of those really fall into the existing ones, and unless the authors come up with new races of the same subtype, I don't think we need to add them. --Oneiros 10:06, 10 July 2006 (MDT)
So, I made the Racial Groups into their own page because they make the 3.5e Races look funny. Is this good, or should it be changed? I kinda like it more... --Green Dragon 06:35, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
I think it looks fine. Just a note, when I went through and added categories, I did put things like Moogle Races and Catgirl Races, which could roll up to a "DnD Race Groups" category, so the page could populate itself. Want me to tweak? --Oneiros 10:16, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
I dont get what you are saying... Could you please explain this better? --Green Dragon 04:23, 4 July 2006 (MDT)
Well, to demonstrate, I changed DnD Race Groups to Category: DnD Race Groups (the old page still exists); then added categories to the other pages as subcategories of the Race Groups page. (Easy to change back if you don't like.) --Oneiros 13:21, 5 July 2006 (MDT)
It's good, thanks. --Green Dragon 03:47, 9 July 2006 (MDT)

Ideas for more categories of race...[edit]

  • By Alphabet.
  • By Creature type (Thanks, Oneiros)
  • By Creator
  • Others?

--Pz.Az.04Maus 08:19, 29 June 2006 (MDT)

Are you talking about having a page built for each category, complete with the "overview" type table like the LA pages have? That would be a lot of redundant work and always be in danger of getting out of sync. (Unless the Wiki has an ability to generate the tables? I know this isn't a relational database, so I'm guessing not. Or could we just use the Category links more to better organize? Like so:
I've already started to add categories at the bottom of some of the races as I prune the LA Unknown Races list.
Other categories I'd suggest
  • Anthromorphic (trying to avoid "Furries"), which would have its own subcategories (Catgirls, for instance.)
  • Anime-Inspired (base on a slight trend I've seen in some of the entries.)
--Oneiros 11:12, 29 June 2006 (MDT)
Note: Catgirls are NOT Furry. FYI. Also, the categories of creatures thing sounds a bit like an idea. *Strokes furbeard*. --Pz.Az.04Maus 21:25, 29 June 2006 (MDT)
What about categorizing them by racial HD and/or ECL? By LA is good, but it gives no indication of the starting ECL without knowing how many racial HD they have. --Sledged 19:18, 29 June 2006 (MDT)
About the Racial HD. I was thinking maybe we should include that into the LA, seeing that it works the same. So, we would change around all the races LA that have racial HD by adding them together to get the new LA. Is this a good idea? Or not? --Green Dragon 06:33, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
That would be good idea. Limiting the number a pages a user needs to navigate through is good. But I recommend using the term "ECL" instead of "LA." Although "LA," "racial HD," and "ECL" (not to mention "class level" and "character level") are interrelated, they each have specific and separate definitions and shouldn't be identified as the same.--Sledged 10:37, 3 July 2006 (MDT)
Would anyone like to do this please? I dont care what we would call the new LA, but could someone please do this? --Green Dragon 04:26, 4 July 2006 (MDT)
I don't know if I saw any races with additional racial HD, but I can go through and check. --Oneiros
Technically, the Machall Moogles have 1, but it can be replaced with a normal class level. FYI ^___^--Pz.Az.04Maus 16:25, 5 July 2006 (MDT)
So, is it done? --Green Dragon 03:55, 9 July 2006 (MDT)
I suggest we should have subcategories of races (base, templates, and bloodlines) in a similar fashion to way the DnD Classes are subdivided. —Sledged 13:42, 23 December 2006 (MST)
I say go for it... I think it would be much easier to find what one is looking for. --Green Dragon 19:22, 23 December 2006 (MST)


I've gone back thru the user races and changed all their categories to make them easier to use with the DPL (see the discussion on the main page; category lists here). However, the three locked races need to be changed again. Could someone update these races as follows:

Kitsune (3.5e Race)

 [[Category:Completed Pages]]

Lapruni (3.5e Race)

 [[Category:Completed Pages]]

Neko (3.5e Race)

 [[Category:Completed Pages]]

Thanks in advance. --Oneiros 08:02, 25 July 2006 (MDT)

Kitsune have an ECL of 2, Lapruni ECL 1, and Neko ECL 1. --Sledged 13:01, 25 July 2006 (MDT)
Oh, yeah... I was totally forgetting to add class HD. Fixed now. Might have to go through the races and fix a few more :P --Oneiros 13:32, 25 July 2006 (MDT)
I just went through and changed the ones above, apparently someone forgot to earlier. Then, I made sure all the locked races had the correct categories. The problem should now be fixed. --Green Dragon 23:59, 2 December 2006 (MST)

Lost Lapruni[edit]

I've never been very good at editing wikis, I noticed that my race, the Lapruni, weren't listed under the "L" section for homebrew races, although I found them easily enough with the search box. Could we fix that? --ChimericPhase

The problem came from the fact that it was using old categories. I'm going to have to go through all the races and make sure all their categories are using the new method. Anyway, the race is better now, right? --Green Dragon 12:36, 30 November 2006 (MST)


Just wanted to keep a running list of things that need to be done to the 3.5e Races. I've also put them in my personal TODO list.

  • Re-assign ECL categories. There's no such thing as an ECL 0 race.
  • sub categorize the races into base races, templates, and bloodlines.
  • Apply some much needed cosmetic and uniform layout changes to the races.
  • Create creature entries for races that don't already have one.
  • Make sure the page titles are in plural form (e.g. "Ogrillorcs" instead of "Ogrillorc")

Sledged 17:37, 21 January 2007 (MST)

Got everything I could think of... However, what Layout changes are you proposing? --Green Dragon 18:46, 21 January 2007 (MST)
Little things, like some pages don't list the racial traits in bullets (e.g. Aranac), and make sure any tables used have the d20 class. Maybe identify which races don't list heights, weights, and age categories. —Sledged 20:30, 21 January 2007 (MST)
I will quickly go and fix a couple of the non-bulleted. Also, should we need to create a list (here?) that shows all the races without age, weight, and age? Also, one for races without bullets? --Green Dragon 22:03, 21 January 2007 (MST)
I do not see too much of a great importance in age/weight/height. I would rely on the age/weight/height of basic races and use common sense when matching one of those with the new homebrew race. The "Monster as Characters" section of each monster entry with a LA in the Monster Manuel never includes it.--Chainer 18:26, 5 February 2008 (MST)


Why are most of the races lacking their proper ECL? Most just have question marks. It seems whoever did the reformating did not notice that each race has their ECL in their category bar.--Chainer 18:39, 4 February 2008 (MST)

It's just that Aarnott did not get around to adding them. It was just more undo work, I guess. Thanks for adding them! --Green Dragon 13:55, 5 February 2008 (MST)

Link to Templates[edit]

Should there be a handy link to Templates listed on the races, since, well, they can be used for making characters as well? --Ganteka 19:26, 29 November 2008 (MST)

I added the link. Got tired of waiting for a response (and just asked a bunch of users in the Tavern with a unanimous "yes" vote). --Ganteka 23:16, 9 February 2009 (MST)

Races by ECL[edit]

Yeah, just added in 3.5e User Races by ECL and was checking out the formatting on the little table. Is there a reason (aesthetic or otherwise) for the black boxes above the listings for the categories (on both the ECL listing and LA listing)? Also, is there a way to make a small space between those two tables so that they don't touch? --Ganteka 23:44, 30 July 2009 (MDT)

3.5 Race Guideline[edit]

I'm new to 3.5, but i think there should be a 3.5 Race Design Guideline for the people are making new races, explaining what is what and so on, the 4e Race Design Guideline by Marasmusine is awesome, I think someone needs to make one for 3.5--Viziton 14:04, 1 March 2012 (MST)

Complete Races and Classes[edit]

What would you think of a page in both the Homebrew Races and Classes section for things that are complete and of fair balance? I think it would improve usability of the site by letting people quickly find races and classes that they know are actually complete and playable, not just a name with a blank page behind it. It also encourages users to make sure their pages are up to the requirements for being listed there.

Missing information?[edit]

When I was trying to create a race, I checked the preview, but no data showed up, as if everything I had typed was never there to begin with. I'm not sure what to do about it. --TheChronicler (talk) 21:58, 26 August 2013 (MDT)

Did you remove the hidden text markers (<!-- and -->)? Marasmusine (talk) 00:39, 27 August 2013 (MDT)
Ah that's probably what I did wrong. --TheChronicler (talk) 12:00, 27 August 2013 (MDT)

LA/ECL and Missing Link[edit]

I would like your assistance with determining the LA and ECL of my new race. I would like an outside opinion to make it work better and try to give my race a LA of 0. Copy this ( )and paste it in your web address. I'd post the actual link, but that leads to the other problem. My race doesn't show up in the races section of the site. If someone could figure out why, that'd be great.--TheChronicler (talk) 06:54, 30 August 2013 (MDT)

Hi! You can wikilink to your page like this: Archanians (3.5e Race). I can see it listed at LA 0 Races. I'll take a look at your LA/ECL and reply on the talk page there. Marasmusine (talk) 10:34, 30 August 2013 (MDT)


Why do we list ECL for races? Characters might have an ECL, but races do not have an inherent ECL - since ECL is racial HD + class HD + LA. A standard LA0 race with no racial HD doesn't contribute anything towards ECL, but we've been listing them as ECL 1, which isn't correct if the character has more than one class level or LA from a template. Marasmusine (talk) 02:40, 6 June 2015 (MDT)

The terminology is derived from the "end calculation". It is so that after you have finished your level x character the ECL that is listed from the race is the same as your initial level from that point. Maybe the class level and the ECL have a weird connection to one another, but I don't know if that's all too important. If we think that this is not understandable in its current state then, of course, it should be corrected. --Green Dragon (talk) 13:53, 6 June 2015 (MDT)
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