Talk:Samurai, Races of War (3.5e Class)

Balance Issues

This class tries to hard to be the best at everything while having no penalties, and the lack of alignment requirements translates badly into the d&d world. The samurai is a better swordsman than the fighter, does more damage than the monk, survives more easily than the barbarian, survives magic more easily than the paladin. For the price of the wizard's summon familiar you gain access to a weapon that in a standard d&d campaign would count as an artifact, but with none of the backdraws. And this is even long before we start adding the power of skills, feats and collected items. It is easy to see that this class is tuned by the principle "how can I negate any obstacle completely without a plan". --Guest 1 Dec 2014.

I dislike that parry magic and reflect magic can be used infinitely to render the samurai immune to targeted magic. Attack rolls will always be higher than spell DCs, thus they will never miss the AC(baring the natural '1' rule). Also, ignoring AC bonuses from spells and spell-like abilities is cumbersome mid-combat, perhaps they should get a bonus to hit based on the number of buffs on the target, rather than recalculating the characters AC every time they are going to get hit. Piercing force effects is an epic ability, i think getting it at level 10 with no failure is over powered. Kiai! is broken, people running around with x4 crit weapons should not have the ability to multiply their damage by 4 at will. lower the ammount of times they can do it, or give it the chance to fail, and restrict it to their Ancestral Weaponry, at least. To clarify, Iaijutsu Focus allows someone to use their next round's swift action to perform Dex+1 attacks, against as many or as few targets as the samurai likes, Meaning a samurai with a +4 dex gets 5 EXTRA attacks per round, at his highest BAB? If so, that is far and above broken. I am not putting the balance template on this because the authors seem not not want anyone to edit it, but as far as typical D&D fighter classes, this is better than all of them, hands down. --Ganre 01:43, 17 April 2009 (MDT)

I agree that the Samurai can be difficult to run games for, but I've been able to work around it by making a gentleman's agreement with the player about their ancestral weapon (I'll allow a x3 crit modifier, for example) and giving them plenty of baddies to carve up before they reach their real objective (I like Frank and K stuff because I can always ask a player to tone it down without offending the group, but people get ticked over someone getting a free power boost). However, I think you misunderstand a few points. Force effects are a caster's "I win" button against non-casters. SRD:Wall of Force is immune to all mundane damage and the only way to hurt it or bypass it is with spells. I realize this may sound redundant, but only casters have spells; that means that only other casters are equipped to deal with Force effect. SRD:Forcecage is an even more disrespectful kick in the testicles becase you can seal someone it in...and they don't get a saving throw! If they don't have some fairly advanced spells, they can't get out. So giving a melee-based class whose common depiction has them slicing through everything an ability to carve through Force Effects? That's not bad. Heck, it's not like the ability will automatically let them kill something; it's just increasing the amount of substances they can damage. In this case, the substance is Iwinium for casters, and I therefore approve. --Genowhirl 09:27, 19 April 2009 (MDT)

That is exactly why it's a team based game, the fighter should not be doing everything. He can get a dispelling weapon to try and deal with the cage, but he's not going to 100% success rate, now if he has a decent wizard/cleric arround, well now, totally different story, he is out of the cage in a single round. --Ganre 15:10, 19 April 2009 (MDT)

"Like a wall of force spell, a forcecage resists dispel magic, but it is vulnerable to a disintegrate spell, and it can be destroyed by a sphere of annihilation or a rod of cancellation." Also yes it a team game but everyone should be able to overcome their share of challenge. We never know when the other players at the table might want to play class outside the base roles. A class for this reason shouldn't be balance based upon a team. What happen if you got no cleric but 2 barbarian... or you are only 3 people in the group. --Lord Dhazriel 15:25, 19 April 2009 (MDT)

Also, casters make the magic items. They get the invincible Force effects. They can, if they so choose, completely screw over something with one action (At early levels they can use something like Color Spray to do this. At higher levels, they can do things like Forcecage and Shapechange). The D&D system relies upon casters to make the hallmarks, so I don't have a problem with that. I do, however, have a problem with people gladly swallowing a wizard throwing down a Cloudkill spell, but balking at a non-caster-type doing something visually spectacular--like shattering a Force effect, or being able to reliably cut something in half. --Genowhirl 15:31, 19 April 2009 (MDT)

I can't think of anything wrong with a 20 level core class mimicking a power granted by an epic prestige class by 10th level, really. At least he's not getting a +5 ghost touch vorpal weapon for 100 gold. Or ignoring DR and hardness, or getting attack of opportunity dispel magic, or anything like that. ...Oh wait. Atypicaloracle 03:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Another issue is that the Vorpal thingie is allowed, with this class, to apply to any weapon. I want a Vorpal Ghost Touch +5 Sledgehammer! -Anonymous

Not sure If I'm editing this right. . . oh well. Take note that Iaijutsu is a immediate action, a subtype of swift actions. This means that you can only preform ONE EACH ROUND. So your basically getting a free attack at your highest BAB once a round. Parry magic = broken as hell. Maybe make this an immediate action? That way you have to choose between laying on the hurt or protecting yourself. Even limit it further to projectile based attacks. After all it doesn't REALLY make sense that your 'parrying' power word stun, now does it (let alone reflecting it)? In regards to the weapon, I personally don't think it's that op. A level 20 fighter is going to have one hell of a weapon, one that can EASILY match a +5 vorpal weapon. The Paladin in my last game had the sun blade which was much stronger than this. Thats my piece! Sorry for any grammar or spelling I wrote this quickly. - alphachief

Rating

Power - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because, while I can see that the grand majority of the abilities this class has are overall balanced, the ability to automatically confirm criticals is a little much to chew, even considering Frank & K's viewpoint on classes. → Rith ^(talk) 03:01, 26 April 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 4.9/5 I give this class a 4.9 out of 5 because there is an extra word in the "Iaijutsu Focus" description that is a little confusing. → Rith ^(talk) 03:01, 26 April 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 2.5/5 I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 because massive portions of the preload are missing, and, while interwiki linking is effectively comprehensive, there are several malformed links on the page. → Rith ^(talk) 03:01, 26 April 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this class is, truly, an excellent example of what a Samurai should be. → Rith ^(talk) 03:01, 26 April 2009 (MDT)

Okay, I think that you got to a really good start, and then nose dived. What kind of sixth level person should be able to bypass ANY DR? But even then, you let your level one or two have a ghost touch weapon? Granted, not many L2's deal with ghosts, but still, if we're going to talk about kicking anyone in the balls, it should be the other martial classes. You just kind of went, oh well I get that and that and that too, just like you do. Plus, I could kick your ass with my amazing weapon. -Drgonlovr2

Note that this is supposed to be used with the other Frank and K classes. The fighter, barbarian, and knight are also pretty awesome, and so are not being "kicked in the balls". They're each different, and useful in a different way. The samurai and barbarian are both high damage, with the samurai having a few anti-magic abilities and the barbarian just being... well, he's a barbarian. And the fighter is versatile, while the knight tanks people like crazy. Dragon Child 20:07, 26 May 2009 (MDT)

Why does everyone go, "It can bypass DR before level 10! IT'S TOO POWERFUL!"? It's not like he does extra damage than he does to something which has no DR. DR serves to really screw melee-combat types, since its magical equivalent (energy/spell resistance) can be bypassed by having a decent variety of spells (some spells don't allow spell resistance). However, magic weapons are expensive, even if you're buying a point or two below your main weapon. Oh, and that's before DR/-. Sure, the entire party can make a gentleman's agreement to buy a silver, cold iron, and adamantine weapon between them...but that's still pretty cheap and breaks some of the immersion. Personally, I'd rather have a Samurai/Monk in the party (or play one) and cheer when DR 15 is ignored, than to *have* to think about playing the DR rules so the melee section of the party can continue to contribute.--Genowhirl 08:59, 29 May 2009 (MDT)

Picture

Thanks a lot for all the help, Jota. I was just wondering if it would be possible to find a picture of a Samurai-like thing with a scythe or other 4x crit weapon instead of that greatsword...tall order, I know, but I think it would make the page better. Surgo 22:22, 18 June 2009 (MDT)

File:Oni samurai by timatika.jpg

420px

I was planning on using this one for the Demon Samurai (3.5e Prestige Class), but if you want I could juggle things a bit. I don't have a huge investment in it either way, other than that this one is a bit fiendish. As for other options, scythes are pretty easy; scythes plus samurai armor is a little harder. I'll see if I can find anything else. -- Jota 22:39, 18 June 2009 (MDT)

That one definitely makes a better demon samurai -- I mean, it's even in the name! Wonderful work with the pictures, by the way. Surgo 02:21, 19 June 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - <<<4.5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4.5>>> out of 5 because <<<This class is decently balanced, and very obviously well thought out and edited. Very well done.>>> --76.26.226.216 14:34, 14 December 2009 (MST)

Wording - <<<4>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<Only one spelling error i saw.>>> --76.26.226.216 14:34, 14 December 2009 (MST)

Formatting - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<No errors i saw.>>> --76.26.226.216 14:34, 14 December 2009 (MST)

Flavor - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Oh just very cool, very very cool, haha.>>> --76.26.226.216 14:34, 14 December 2009 (MST)

Rating

Power - 2.5/5 I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 because, while I usually enjoy and am in favor of Frank and K's methods of determining class and ability strengths, I find that the massive amount of exploitation available for critical hits is simply too much. Sure, Undead and other creatures might be able to put a wrench in the gears, but there's not always those kinds of creatures around. Force cutting, Magic cutting, head cutting, armor cutting... it has alot of features that I feel I can accommodate, even if a little uncomfortably. However, this seems a little much. The amount of uses in intermediate levels skyrockets, and in the higher levels, it gains an almost indefinite range, considering how many enemies the Samurai kills. Killing off an entire village of people could be done and grant easily more than 50 uses of the Kiai! ability, per day, it seems. Even more discouraging, the Samurai could simply use Kiai! to kill something, and gain another use. I understand that Spell-casters constantly overshadow Warrior classes, but the Tome Fighter and Tome Monk are great compensations to that, whereas this Tome Samurai... it seems to be more of an extremely exploitable class. --Jwguy 01:21, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 5/5 Admittedly, despite my statement above, I find that the Wording and Formatting are still as wonderful as ever. Keep up the good work! --Jwguy 01:21, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 5/5 My reasons for this are as they are above. --Jwguy 01:21, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - 3.5/5 While my issues with the class's seeming overpowered status remain, I find that the improvements made on the class are rather agreeable, overall, excluding the Kiai! ability. It seems to provide a staple class for warriors against the threats of mages, without actually having to be a spellblade, which is something I always encourage. --Jwguy 01:21, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Rating

Power - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because if any DM in his or her right mind would let me play one, I would pick this over any other melee-focused warrior class around. Cleaving through spells, reflexively swatting aside any inconvenient spell headed my way, getting powerful magical weapons basically for free, and easily exploiting my Kiai! ability sounds like a gas. Even better if I happen to have a few other adventurers following me around for some reason, and one of them decided to cast buffing spells on me. --Atypicaloracle 03:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

For starters, I admit the Samurai wins melee combat when he has his uses of Kiai. It hasn't been a problem for me in my games, because whoever's playing a samurai generally wants to do it for the mook-slaying. I can keep them happy by throwing some mooks at them for them to hack down and sometimes Kiai. Plus, this is meant to be used with other melee classes from the same sourcebook, like a Monk or a Barbarian who will have their own interesting ways to contribute and awesome things to do. This is all based on some variant rules to patch some problems with the D&D 3.x system, and one of the things this would did was make some melee classes that didn't have to be part of an iconic party and more or less ran themselves. Because not every group wants to have a fighter, a wizard, a cleric, and a rogue running around, and not everyone wants to have to play a build, like I'd have to do if I played an SRD fighter and wanted to, you know, stay alive until we get to the next roleplaying bit. --Genowhirl 16:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 4/5 The wording is clear enough, although easy exploits abound. I can't conclusively prove these exploits are the result of the wording or deliberate intent on the creator's behalf. --Atypicaloracle 03:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 4/5 It's dense, and there's more class powers on this page than I properly know how to approach, but the parts seem to be largely in the right places. --Atypicaloracle 03:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

There's something every level because the guys who wrote this realized 1) Getting something new to look forward to each level apart from a slight increase in your numbers is pretty awesome 2) Casters get new class powers each level. You know, those interesting abilities and effects called 'spells'? That's actually a pretty good way to do it (see point 1) and should have been expanded in the first place --Genowhirl 16:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - 2/5 I firmly believe that within the narrow confines of the D&D alignment system, a samurai is a Lawful character: devoted to a strictly regimented caste system, swearing binding vows of fealty to a member of a ruling class, and devoting themselves to a regimented study of martial practice. They don't have to be good, or evil for that matter, but they are essentially lawful, being for all intents and purposes the Japanese equivalent of a chivalric knight. That aside, the introduction to the class makes no attempt to present the character in an "in-universe" style - by the phrase "beat the crap out of" I was already wincing and found it impossible to stop. --Atypicaloracle 03:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, you would have a point except for two things. First, the D&D alignment system makes no sense and is best treated as a sort of rough guideline at best, especially when it gets to the parts about Law and Chaos. Telling someone they MUST play Lawful because you can't imagine any other way the character could be is honestly sort of insulting to that person's abilities, saying there's no way they could play, for example, a Chaotic samurai well. Second, comparatively few gaming groups use the same universe. Many of the gaming groups do their own thing rather than cleave to some setting or another, shocking as that might sound to the Goodright Roleplayers. So, given the impossibility to pandering to everyone's games, I have no problem with someone just putting up the class's mechanics and letting those and a few notes speak for itself. Given that the class's abilities are a nod to the what the samurai (and other Eastern-style sword-wielding nutcases) do in modern media today and some of the historical figures like Miyamoto Musashi (who, yes, wrote a treatise on 'How I Did It'), and anyone playing a Samurai would probably like a little of that represented in their game, I'd have to say you're being unfair in what you focus on the rating. --Genowhirl 16:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, here, this seems to be as good a place as any--and the category these are based on is filled with a lot of mess right now (like what appears to be several dozen 4e powers, what's up with that?). Take a gander at these: Tome of Necromancy (3.5e Sourcebook), Tome of Fiends (3.5e Sourcebook), Dungeonomicon (3.5e Sourcebook), Races of War (3.5e Sourcebook). You might not agree with what they say, but they'll make you have to think about your assumptions and may make you realize a few more thing. --Genowhirl 16:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Rating

Power - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because the Ancestral Weapon feature with its improvements is grossly overpowered. At first level, for only 100 gp and some meditation the character gains the equivalant of a +2 magic weapon. At 18th level, the character has a Vorpal (+5) +5 Ghost Touch (+1) weapon, that not only acts as a Brilliant Energy Weapon (+4), but does not have the limitations of that quality (eg. no effect on undead or constructs), but also ignores all damage reduction and hardness. Even without considering ignoring damage reduction and hardness (which used to require several Epic Feats), this is the equivalant of a +15 weapon. In addition, some of the feats granted, at least as referenced here, grant abilities beyond the scope of normal characters - blindsense to 60', tremorsense to 120'? No character gains anything resembling this. The character never needs to buy a weapon, magical or otherwise, allowing him to save money for magical armor, buffs, and secondary weapons, and gains an artifact quality weapon by 15th level. The Ancestral Weapon needs to be significantly reduced in power to bring this class in line with other martial characters - especially when a DM could allow the 1/2 character level +2 automatic critical hits per day to trigger the vorpal power.

Not all weapon enhancements are made equal. Ghost Touch equals "You don't automatically lose when you run into an incorporeal undead". Also, Epic rules bite and prove nothing. One of the big problems the SRD monk is in so much trouble is because all that DR enemies have become DR/You Don't Have it. Once it hits DR 15/anything, it becomes 'Immune to Monks'. All the other martial classes share the problem, what with there being DR/Cold Iron (which is somehow different from normal Iron in a completely unthematic way), DR/Silver, DR/Adamantine, DR/Wood, DR/Stone, and, of course, good old DR/-. Ignoring DR and Hardness translates to, "A workable response to all enemies and most obstacles is 'cut it'.". They don't increase the damage you do, they just keep you from doing -less- damage. Neither does Ghost Touch. They don't actually provide some overwhelming benefit. Now, the vorpal is problematic. I think the authors clarified it was suppose to be on a natural critical rather than the Kiai business, but what with the exodus, no one who knows that bothered clarifying it. Also, amazingly, you may find it interesting to consider this idea: Wealth by level is trap idea and removes immersion and it should be ditched along with XP, which is unnecessary bookkeeping that could be replaced by the DM saying "You level up when I say you do". Really, my character is supposed to budget 25% of his money for a weapon walk around enough small magic items that he looks like a magic christmas tree, thanks to those actually giving more benefit than one big item and about 30% of them will be glowing and, by the SRD, after a while one of them should be sentient. How nice and mercenary. Also serves to make all characters look the same after a while, because after people get the idea that to have a character survive is pretty fun and to do that, they need the right gear. In any case, this is one class out of a kind of sourcebook that's here on the website. One of a series of four. You may find them interesting reading, even if you don't agree with everything. Tome of Necromancy, Tome of Fiends, the Dungeonomicon, and the one devoted to martial classes, Races of War. --Genowhirl 10:35, 8 September 2010 (MDT)

Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is well worded, with no significant errors. There is some confusion regarding the Whirlwind Attack feature, which suggests it is one feat (Whirlwind Attack) and then grants a similar sounding feat (Whirlwind) - or at least links to it.

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I didn't se any issues with the formatting.

Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it's fairly well flavored and imaginative for a samurai.

Rating

Power - 1/5 Good lord this class is overpowered 1 out of 5 for shear massive power, assuming this rating means power balance if it is not it will get an 11. --Crashpilot 15:40, 23 February 2011 (MST)
Wording - 4/5 Wording is good, everything it does is clear to me.--Crashpilot 15:40, 23 February 2011 (MST)
Formatting - 5/5 Formatting is good and decent, I havent tried every link but I suppose it is in order. --Crashpilot 15:40, 23 February 2011 (MST)
Flavor - 4/5 A lot of trademarks of actual samourai lore are constructed clearly into the class and are given good descriptions, however I realy cannot place some of its abilities in combination with the class.--Crashpilot 15:40, 23 February 2011 (MST)

Notes

As a DM I would refuse this class to be played in my campaigns, it is grossly overpowered and would inbalance the game. Unless every other player has an equally as powerfull class to play with, then I can adjust the dificulty of the campaign and the class will be acceptable. Unfortunatly not everyone in my group has the time or will to create his own class or search for others on the internet. Combined with their (usual) basic classes I cannot justify this power class towards them. Please also note that this my vision on matters not a rule, I love the setup of the class in 80% of the skills but do feel that there are a few skills out of place but the combination of some very powerfull skills makes it too strong for normal play, again, in my opinion.

I am a true samurai freak, I have studied them in behaviour, combat style etc. and I like the "duty" and master skills and feats that are presented in this class. Also the dedication to a certain type of weapon strokes well with the actual fighting style of samurai. The fact that samurai, unlike common belief, actually do not only fight with katana's is represented well in the class. They were skillfull fighters that committed their entire lifes to a single warlord (litterarely) and do this with dedication and obediance. If they fail their duty or become disloyal they would take their own life by the means of seppuku. Some samurai have simply abandoned their master or are send away by them and those are known under the name of Ronin. All of wich is incorporated in this class in some form. Thumbs up there! The spell reflection or resistance is nice, not very warrior like but samurai have strong minds and it may be possible, however reflecting any spell for ever? That is hard to swallow.

Now what in the lords name is that smashing through walls stuff? That doesn't sound very samourai like. Ok it's a fantasy game and not everything needs to be perfect but smashing through walls sounds more like something that a barbarian would do, not a skillfull and dedicated fighter that trains his arts to perfection. I would accept it because everyone is entiteled to their perception of any class they make but are you sure?. Also slicing through damage reduction sounds a bit overpowerd, I'd have to increase the number of targets in that case or improve their hitpoints. For most undead that isn't even possible (well it is as I would be the DM but still) I do find it a valid skill but how about building up the DR penetration over levels and limiting it? Like: ignore one DR per 3 levels. At level 20 anything with a DR of 6 would become wusscake. Or limit ignoring the DR for X turns every day?

Now: make any hit an automatic critical for X per day, that I could live with, it's strong and has no disadvantages but it fits the class nicely becouse samurai would actually train on parry like fighting while giving small and precise cuts to arteries and tendils (stuff that is attached to muscles, cant remember the exact word).
Every time you kill an enemy you suck it's soul into the weapon, it cannot be resurected. What is it? the grim reaper? And gain one critical hit for every soul in the weapon. Wait a minute! Free criticals and then a lot of free criticals extra! Woot! I liky as a player, not so much as a DM.

Ignore caster(d) defense... All casters are now oneshot wonders..., always... what were you thinking? Mages are squishy enough as it is
Ignore all armor... Now allmost all creatures are one shot wonders, no magic defense, no natural defense, no armor defense, no damage reduction and one of the best attack bonus in the game. Grumble, grumble, but wait it gets better... Your weapon becomes a vorpal weapon no mather what... I always hit, I can always crit if I like and now I do it with a free head lobbing weapon! Bring out the grill boy's we are having a barbeque tonight!

Ignoring or dispelling spells with attacks is ingenious and sounds like fun and warriors / melee totally deserve some magic dispelling stuff, being able to ignore super spells is also a good idea, doing it for ever however is stretching it.

So basicly around level 18 you can just walk up to balor confortably, rejecting most if not all of his spells, cinse he has no DR, no armor and cannot be buffed by magic you'd alway's hit with every attack, next to your normal attacks you gain extra attacks by aijitsu (if I got it right you will have atleast 5 attacks including the BaB) and they are all critical strikes. With a normal weapon that would be around 64 damage per hit times 5 = 320 damage. You would just one shot him right where he stands, guarenteed! Oh and you have a 25% chance to lob his head of anyway and all that for free! And you started off so nicely with the class...

I love samurai, played a few myself also and I agree they actually suck (the cookie cutters I mean). It is well build with a lot of lore incorperated in fun way's. A lot of the skills make perfect sense and are well crafted and fit a samurai well (as I perceive them). Having some strong attacks or options at high level is not neccesarilly a bad thing and it may float for most DM's (including me) but the amount and combination of powerfull skills will make this class a one man operated slaughterhouse. I would never allow any player to play this class unless every other player would play an equally strong class and they should be ready to have the seven layers of hell pooring over them.

(This is assuming I got everything right what is described in the class, please correct me if I understood something wrong!)

Ok after reading the rest of the reviews thouroughly I came to the impression that this class was never intended as a class that should enter normal play and should be used in combination with certain other classes. Within that regard I see a well balanced class. However I will not change the review as this class will most likely be viewed uppon as a class for normal play. As a side note I do not feel that wizards are overpowered. Granted that they are the most powerfull class in the game damage wise but their spells are largely limited and most of them can easilly be resisted by saves and reflexes, if you manage to get up close and personal with them they are easy pickings and die insanely fast. However most plot writers use mages and wizzards for the climactic fight at the end and they are buffed by themselves and other NPC's up their arse often reaching insame amounts of AC but still they are beatable. If you have a caster in your own group, dispelling those benifits can be easilly attempted and 50% of the time succeed while they also can buff the fighter of the group and let hem sneak / charge up the hill and use dirty tricks to take them out. In my eyes they provide a challenge and a game without challenge is not a game but they are definitly not unbalanced. --Crashpilot 15:40, 23 February 2011 (MST)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because It is a very powerful class that has a lot of useful abilities and I'm sure alot of people would agree. However, it is impossible to improve the power without making it too cheap.

Wording - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because The class description was easy to understand and the wording was informative but just descriptive enough while not being too wordy. A few things could be described more, however.

Formatting - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because It is a very powerful class...maybe a bit too powerful? However it is formatted well and I think it fits very well into the DnD universe.

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because Who wouldn't love a Samurai? Who wouldn't love Katanas? Who wouldn't love being able to strike fear into enemy hearts and cut through them like a hot chainsaw through butter?

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because Power? This class got power alright...

Wording - <5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because very nice.

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because Looks great! Easy to read, nice picture as well (never got how to do that..)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because love the fluff.

Rating

Power - <<<6>>>/5 I give this class a <<<6>>> out of 5 because <<<its overpowered, that's not hard to see at all.>>>

Wording - <<<4>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<It was easy to understand and worded effectively, somethings can be a bit awkward but it matters little with such potent abilities, there is no exploit to op.>>>

Formatting - <<<1>>>/5 I give this class a <<<1>>> out of 5 because <<<The formatting itself is basic but fine for what it is. For lack of a space to put it I included its viability here. Its simply rediculously op, vorpal, ability to overcome all DR and magic barriers, denial of spells before saves and aoe removal in combination with melee abilities per day and a fighters BaB. This class lacks nothing but healing. If you disagree with me, that's fine but there is a reason no other melee class comes close to this, TOB is not a legitimate argument if you want to pull that, its the most broken book in all of 3.5 you could find that anywhere as well. >>>

Flavor - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Despite its severe lack of balance it has some unique abilities I enjoy.>>>

Rater clearly doesn't understand the rating system. --Ganre (talk) 08:05, 8 November 2012 (MST)

Rating

Power -4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Numerous features that make the samurai an effective killer, with a balance of squishyness- A strong class but not unbalanced

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 4.8 out of 5 because All abilities and explanations were clear

Formatting - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because the features could have been arranged in a more orderly spaced fashion to enable ease of reading.

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because an unbelievably fun class with flare and individuality

Rating

Power -4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Numerous features that make the samurai an effective killer, with a balance of squishyness- A strong class but not unbalanced

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 4.8 out of 5 because All abilities and explanations were clear

Formatting - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because the features could have been arranged in a more orderly spaced fashion to enable ease of reading.

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because an unbelievably fun class with flare and individuality

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is a strong melee choice but not overpowering or capable of fulfilling all party roles.

Wording - 4.2/5 I give this class a 4.2 out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>>

Formatting - 3.5/5 I give this class a 3.5 out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>>

Flavor - 4.8/5 I give this class a 4.8 out of 5 because it presents an interesting class with original adaptations of melee combat.

Mal-formed Ratings

Would anyone be opposed to me removing the junk ratings from the bottom that are not formatted correctly? I think it clutters up the talk page. --Ganre 12:31, 28 March 2012 (MDT)

Please strike-through ratings that are inapplicable. If you can justify the ratings removal, it may be removed. Please explain the removal, if that is necessary, by answering that rating given. Otherwise an edit summary is just fine. --Green Dragon 09:24, 29 March 2012 (MDT)

too overpowered --173.216.117.9

Rating

Power - 2.75/5 I give this class a 2.75 out of 5 because This class has some good abilities, sure, but its nothing in comparison with tier 2 or even 3 classes. The magic cut, for example, is a good leveler against magic-users, but is *very* limited, and it treated as more important than it really is.

Wording - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because The wording is quite accurate and through, plain and simple. --Green Dragon (talk)

Formatting - 3.25/5 I give this class a 3.25 out of 5 because although fairly balanced and spread out, the actual abilities and such are not very interactive with each other. --Green Dragon (talk) 11:23, 3 February 2014 (MST)

Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because this class does well to hold up the idea of a noble and disciplined Samurai, and has sever unique and interesting aspects to it. --Green Dragon (talk) 11:23, 3 February 2014 (MST)

All in all, although it is a MONUMENTAL improvement over the original, it still lacks a truly unique dynamic aspect that I would love to see in the Samurai class. I must say that this is a great start, but putting more effort into making it a fully customizable, individual 'jutsu-specializing' class would be amazing. As a melee class, dont worry about making it too strong, the the wizards and druids will always have the upper hand!

Rating

Balance - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because the power of this class is ridiculous. It makes standard classes look like the commoner NPC class. You are essentially immune to magic, turn spells back at anyone, enemies don't get AC bonuses or cover and you score endless critical hits... and this is without a single skill, feat or collected item needed --93.89.40.243 14:45, 30 November 2014 (MST)

Wording - 2/5 Spelling errors. --93.89.40.243 14:45, 30 November 2014 (MST)

Formatting - 3/5 Formatting is ok. --93.89.40.243 14:45, 30 November 2014 (MST)

Flavor - 1/5 This is just a melee class made by someone who gets annoyed when melee classes can't automatically win. --> --93.89.40.243 14:45, 30 November 2014 (MST)

Rating

Balance - 0/5 I give this class a 0 out of 5 because it has no balance, there is no reason after 6th level to be any other fighter class. DR is completely removed, thus fully half or more of all future challenge ratings lose their reason for that challenge rating --72.199.12.91 03:53, 20 February 2015 (MST)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it does an average job of explaining the class it is pushing forward --72.199.12.91 03:53, 20 February 2015 (MST)

Formatting - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it does an average job on formating --72.199.12.91 03:53, 20 February 2015 (MST)

Flavor - 0/5 I give this class a 0 out of 5 because there is no flavor other than overpowered cheese --72.199.12.91 03:53, 20 February 2015 (MST)

The Class

I was looking for this, and when I clicked the link, I saw the entire class missing! Does anyone know where it went? I've seen a lot of things I like in the RoW sourcebook, and wanted to see what this was.