Talk:Regi (5e Race)

Hello! So I don’t know how this “talk” system works yet but I just want to say that I’m the guy that’s kinda picked up this page for the last few days and I understand how you could see this as “unbalanced” per say and it is true that there are a few kinks I need to work out buuut on that same note I realized that these aren’t just any mere Pokémon ! These are legendary Pokémon (kinda) so I felt it natural to juice up Regigigas who is a legendary and to make the Regis compatible with the status of minor legendary... if I’m doing it wrong tell me please but I have a pretty good view of balance and I just imagine that these Pokémon should technically be more powerful, like CR 14 or something so I made sure to put good upsides but equally put falling downsides. Please do give me advice because I really enjoy doing this and I don’t want people to look at that big warning sign and think it’s all rubbish. Thank you -T (P.S have a great day and thanks for reading if you managed through all that) Btw the Regice regeneration is just in cold environments I’m gonna work on it either way

Hey, thanks for trying to reach out. Making them stronger because they're legendaries makes sense in theory, but they are still a race, and when compared to the other races, this overshadows them easily. So, even if it seems weird, keeping them weaker is necessary to balance. An argument against this I see often is that the race was made for "high level games", however you do still get more from this race regardless of level. I've implemented something of a system to combat this, but a version with this should likely be a small variant with changed traits at the end of the page, akin to the Space Marine (5e Race).

In my own, personal opinion, there probably shouldn't be races for legendary pokemon. Non-legendaries sorta work, but as soon as you reach the "purposely much stronger single characters", it gets a bit rough, although they can still be balanced, you do gut the race in the process. A small thing I reccomend you look at are the actual sizes of the Regi trio(I refuse to acknowledge the new ones), as all of them are under 6'2", the big one being about 10', if I recall correctly, this should solve the size problems. Additionally, the "true size" thing should just be removed. Anything that grants about 100 hitpoints at first level is either a punpun kinda deal, a rounding error, or just a bad idea. The traits like Ice Beam, Thunder Cage, and Dragon Breath should probably just be replaced by cantrips(which was already done in the Ice subrace's case using ray of frost). These are the more glaring problems, and once dealt with then I could probably give better, more specific advice. Again, thanks for trying to explain your thought process, that's the kind of thing sorely lacking from a lot of new editors. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:08, 9 March 2021 (MST)

Oh, and before I forget, "X(type) moves" don't exist in 5e, please avoid using that. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:11, 9 March 2021 (MST)

Tristovia941:

Hiya, sorry I need to edit this but I don’t know how to add more talk bubbles, I’m relatively new to this system. I see what you mean, I debated for the sizes but I couldn’t see Regigigas, the mover of continents to be the size of a ladder, I might bring the other Regis down to their normal sizes but I kind of imagined them as elementals, I’ll work on that. Now for the moves, I propose this, what if they learn the moves at higher levels, like at level 7 they learn them, so they use cantrips and whatever TMs they can find until then but once they get more powerful they can get the bigger guns? Also I reworked the resistances so there are at a minimum two vulnerabilities and Resistances (except for Regigigas but I think I’ll turn him into a creature, I also found it weird to play as him, I also gave them a glaring weak spot Acid which inflicts double damage, my idea is that their powerful but at a cost, if your not careful with your power you could end up hurting your team or yourself as well as your foes (double edged sword). But I don’t think removing their signature moves is a good idea personally.

(I thank you so much for helping me :)

I understand if it seems a little arbitrary, but races don't scale past 5th level(check any first part race, none of them do), so that doesn't work out as well. TMs also don't exist, so that one's a bit odd too. Personally, I say the changes on the gigas subrace should be reverted, it was fairly balanced before all the edits and could just remain.

I get being against removing signature stuff, but the traits they do already have make them seem like overkill. This again comes back to the ol' balance thing, as getting a race worth of traits + another special thing seems pretty iffy. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:31, 9 March 2021 (MST)

Something else that I will note is you will have to consider race/class interactions. For instance, with Regigigas, his punches were able to do 3d10 damage which is about equal to 2nd level spell when you start the game, which isn't too much. But, if you take levels in monk and get to level 10ish, you have access to four attacks ie. 12d10 damage if all of the attacks hit, per turn, which is comparable to 7th or 8th level spells at best. TeslaFistforge (talk) 12:52, 9 March 2021 (MST)

Better as a Monster

This race is extremely imbalanced and would probably be better as a monster. Concepts that are extremely powerful in the lore of the source material generally are very hard to turn into a faithful race and still have some semblance of balance. TeslaFistforge (talk) 12:05, 9 March 2021 (MST)

Well, it probably would be, like the Lati (5e Race). But, the page is already made, so we might as well just make it functional, right? --SwankyPants (talk) 12:08, 9 March 2021 (MST)

I see, I see, so I’ve recalibrated their sizes and taken off the (x moves) replacing them with more dnd tuned styles, I realize that Regigigas isn’t working so I’m gonna make him a deity in this without making him playable (playing a god seems a little far fetched, the Latis and the Regis are better candidates for PC’s), I’m gonna nerf their signature moves a bit as-well while I’m at it, turn them into home brew cantrips likely. These seem to be the main issues. Any additional ideas I could implement ? --Tristovia941 (talk) 12:32, 9 March 2021

Race hopefully balanced

So just putting this out there but I’ve heavily revamped the page, I’ve fixed the sizing issues, the Regis traits issues among other things and it would be appreciated if someone where to read through it and critique or comment what they can. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tristovia941 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

The page is still a rather cumbersome read, flavor text being a bit too heavy in the traits section, or the abundance of said traits and other such things. I'm gonna go over the race again and add back the gigas subrace, as it was completely functional, and a deities information should not be on a race page. Additionally, I'm gonna remove a lot of flavor text. If you want to reuse it somewhere on the page, go wild, but avoid the traits. I will likely make more edits but I am absolutely sure of these two, I am undecided on others. --SwankyPants (talk) 07:07, 10 March 2021 (MST)

Okay! I did a lot more than just those two things. You can see all the changes here. A majority of it was just removing bloat, now instead of several resistances and vulnerabilities each, you get one. The trio (+2) now just have a cantrip instead of any special abilities, and a lot more. It's a hell of a lot less to read, and should be closer in line with other races now, at least somewhat. Sorry that I took out a lot of stuff, but that's just kinda how this goes. --SwankyPants (talk) 07:47, 10 March 2021 (MST)

I see, I find the earthen bullet Cantrip much better than magic stone. It’s far more on par with the other cantrips because they become better, otherwise I also proposed the idea that Regirock could use his hands like clubs (a d8 of damage to compensate). I don’t think Gigas should be a race because of its legendary status but alas, I still believe the simplified special moves should have been kept, I though it added a bit of flavor to the Regis... I could get passed most of everything else I just really think they’d have at least one special trick up their sleeve... and in exchange they would have the acid weakness. Either way thank you very much, this has been a big help (consider the specials) Is there any way I could convince you otherwise? Because the races feel a bit... bland no? --Tristovia941 (talk) 20:15 10 March 2021

Racial Feats, perhaps? Wouldn't be immediate as to not screw with race balance, but you can still get them. Maybe represents learning them.

Also note that this may not exactly represent being this thing, more just a race closely related to the regis. You might not be a literal god with the gigas subrace. --SwankyPants (talk) 09:28, 10 March 2021 (MST)

Yes, racial feats is a good idea (I thought that was what it was in the first place), let me give you an example of the minor changes I propose : give the Acid weakness, Rock : Robust ( your fists are natural weapons d8 damage and replace magic stone with earthen bullet (much more balanced Cantrip trust me), Ice : Frozen (in temperatures below freezing level heals 1+1d4 every round (it’s was in the OG version)), Lekie : Thunder cage ( a)on a failed DC receives 1d4 damage and is paralyzed for 1d6 rounds, each round receives another d4; must take a short rest before using it again or b) gives resistance to metallic weapons and if an ennemi holding or wearing metal approaches 10ft of this Regi it receives a d8 of damage (électromagnétisme)), Drago : Dragons maw (a bit like the paladins power up but gives resistance to intimidation and frightening to allies within 15 ft of itself as long as it is conscious), Gigas : Crunch grip (gives it the siege monster abilities, advantage when breaking stuff) and Steel : Steel mind (resistance against things messing with its mind) I find these could give the Regis a bit more spark, make readers go from “there’s not much in here sadly” to “I need to be this now..”, and I find pretending to be a lesser deity could be entertaining role play wise, and I mean speaking Regi is pretty fun. --Tristovia941 (talk) 20:44 10 March 2021

Come to think of it Gigas should be given an AC no? I’m thinking 15 or 14 + constitution modifier. On that same note, I was thinking we could write a small bio for each Regi a bit like with the actual sub races in the beginners guide (wood elf, hill dwarf etc etc) and might I point out that races like Half-Dragons, Wood elves, Deep Dwarves/Duerghar and rock Gnomes get special ability like traits as-well (Breath attack/resistance; advantage with hiding in all natural environments; can literally poof up two sizes for a short period of time/resistance; can fabricate small machinery ), and they are official so it doesn’t seem overpowering to me to go with their special abilities no? (Also I called Gigas = Lesser Gigas, like he’s a clone of the normal Regigigas or something so we don’t confuse the deity with the PC...--Tristovia941 (talk) 22:27-23:17 10 March 2021

You could certainly add a bit of lore, just don't go too crazy, like 1-2 sentences. Also, that gigas subrace is already questionable at best. Please don't add more to it. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:21, 10 March 2021 (MST)

Consider the lore added, you can simplify it if you wish but I think it’s okay as it is, Regidrago might be a bit long though, I added a teensy little detail to Regigigas, something I felt could go well with it and could make sense, I also have a picture that could go well on this page maybe, is there a way I can put it on? It’s a realistic and DND-esque version of Regieleki. On that same note I think the other Regis are pretty balanced now, what are your thoughts?

(Once again the help is very appreciated) --Tristovia941 (talk) 10:25 11 March 2021

What happened here?

Greetings, I am Juki I was the creator and original biggest contributor to this race. I was just casually working on this race from week to week. Just implementing basic ideas and just overall creating this as a side project that I can fall back on when I got creative burnout on any of my other projects... I was basing this race on the Bulbapedia 1 2 3 4 5 6 Ingame Regi's and not the anime and or manga version. To make sure some of them did have to not be completely and blatantly overpowered. I also took the ingame effects over the Pokedex seeing as while the Pokedex states that Regice is not hurt by fire the game says clearly otherwise. In those situations, it's better to follow the game logic for balance reasons as the Pokemon game logic is already more centred around balance so that translates into D&D better (that's also where I got Regigigas and the others hights from.)

But, I must say I love your enthusiasm! And I am quite happy to get some help on both Draco and Eleki seeing as I am not as familiar with them as I was the original 4 but My plan for them was to make them similar in Traits the format I went for with all except Regigigas was this: first a Trait based on their type, then a Trait based on their main stat, then a Trait based on one of their moves as a cantrip, and then 2 more Trait based on their abilities.

I am happy with all the flavour you added and the personalities too! But I disagree with some of the changes you have made with some of my Traits I preferred some of my old names too (Like most pokemon races on this site I like to name things after ingame pokemon things). But overall I am quite happy with the changes but I am going to make a few again too I'll explain my reasoning in the changelog(the history tab). --Juki12 (talk) 10:25, 16 March 2021 (CET)

Hiya there!! I’m Tristovia, I meant no disrespect when editing your work, I’d been eying the Regirace for sometime but never saw any knew changes so I kind of took the page for dead and decided to spice things up a bit. I feel flattered by your comments (I really do I thank you so much) and I quite like a few of your points and changes as well, personally I think this should be less like In-game Pokémon and more like an actual race of ancient, lonesome creatures (truly dnd style if you wish) but being a big fan of both game I wouldn’t mind as much, I also think that how the race is now is pretty good, I think that most of the traits are pretty decent to both in game and dnd world.

Now I’m on board with the vulnerability to fire for Regice and I think we could tweak Regieleki thunder cage a bit (more on that soon), but I think we would be making a mistake by removing Regirock’s club hands, I mean, Regirock should be an adept fighter as Registeel should be a good shield as Regice would be a proficient spell caster. (Also both in game and in lore his hands are “literally” club-like in appearance). For Regieleki I think the focalized d10 could be a useful (and awesome) tool but I fear that could lead to Regieleki becoming better than the rest. If you look for my Regieleki Creature stats sheet I made (should be in the Pokémon franchise category of DnDwiki now, a lot of my initial things I put was said to be too I balanced for a race so I put a good portion in its and Regidrago creature sheets) you might get an idea of what I see Regieleki capable of. (Check out those Regi creature sheets because I also modified them, but I only created the Drago and Eleki sheets.)

I believe I’ve followed your organization idea already having a trait based on type, stat and two on the abilities and so and so... Though I would like to know what new changes you intend on implementing for I also feel very entwined with this page, but I certainly do not want you to think I’ve stolen it from you, with all due respect this is your initial creation but I’ve also added a good part and thanks to the user Swankypants especially who helped in balancing a lot of things and offering a good amount of constructive criticisme. Also just pointing out but I didn’t change the initial names, that was Swankypants but that’s also why I didn’t touch the “Regis are genderless” section. (P.S, what did you think of my retake on Regigigas and the others, especially the backstories?) --Tristovia941 (talk) 9:04, 16 March 2021

Greetings again, I was very busy that week so I understand if you thought it was dead (The wiki does have a template for that so if you feel like saving some things from deletion lookout for that), I like your Syle idea if you want we can work together to do both. On this wiki, it's common to have variations on races especially for the reasons you present. (Look no further than the 2 variations of the Vampire they use the Same concept and many of the same traits but one is based more on Dracula and the mythology based on him and the other is based more on the Shadow. I would be open for us to colobarate to do Exactly that!

I also agree about the thunder cage bit it could still use some tweaking but I think that the club hands would work great on a variation not so much this one. And after looking at your work on the creature versions I think that we have more then enough content te still work with.

Yeah I know SwankyPants is great right? I have known him for a while and he has helped me a lot with balance too! And I do not mind if you want to know what, when and how If I'm going make changes.

Your lore was a great addition and I think the Son of Gigas was a very clever idea!

Anyway If you are open for what I am proposing I would love to hear more of your ideas! If not I would still like to keep communication tight and work with you to finish this more save version of the race. --Juki12 (talk) 23:33, 16 March 2021 (CET)

Thank you, I’m honestly flattered, I am absolutely on board with a collaboration and I would absolutely love to work together, and I thank you for your kindness as well, the Regirock mace hands may still be in the debate pile, but I would like to point out that a two race variation would only need to be done if they a have a notable difference (like shadow vampire or Dracula vampire), so unless we intend on making drastique changes to this page I don’t think we would need a second, separate Race no?

In the beginning I was tempted to follow the “Pokémon logic” rules for the race as well but then I stopped and thought to myself, “How would a player view this? Would they prefer pinpoint game accuracy? Or just a race they could filter into their possibly non Pokémon campaign and still enjoy?”, I feared that if a race was too consistent with in game workings that the player could see it less as an actual race one could play, role play and even grow as and more of some already powerful, almost lifeless robot you send out when an issue comes at hand. This leads me to a very important question, one that will define whether or not this race would need to be separated in two styles and pages (or hopefully not), What is your vision of this race? What do you want to change and do with it? What do you think a player would be looking for in a race like the one In your vision?

To give an example, my vision is a race of ancient, primordial guardians built to wander and protect the world from harm,(for the most part). I want to make this race feel less like a hollow, video game creature and more like an actual being, something you could almost believe exists in a world of DND and one that could seep into a partie without feeling too out of place yet still being faithful to the original Pokémon.

Also, for Regirock we could give it Hammer Arm as a trait, a move it does learn in-game, it could just act like a magical natural weapon when it comes to bypassing normal weapon resistances (a simple d6 of damage)? Either way I feel like without a form of consistant battle Regirock wouldn’t be worth playing as, he is literally incapable of holding a weapon and a shield because one must come to remember that Regirock’s hands are literally club-like boulders.. (maybe look at the Regirock creature sheet for ideas maybe? I don’t know it’s up to you.). On that other note now both RegiDrago ans Regieleki have the same AC again, the 11 could make sense for Eleki but maybe q2 for Regidrago? His main stats is HP after all? --Tristovia941 (talk) 9:14 AM, 17 March 2021