Talk:Heroic Spirit (5e Class)

Yo, what's with the limit of spells with caster? i understand reduced spell slots but not spell type, if someone could explain that would be good. Sir Satan

It's the same deal with eldritch knight and arcane trickster. You can read those(SINCE THIS ONE DOESN'T EXPLAIN IT), should explain it pretty well. --SwankyPants (talk) 17:23, 11 March 2021 (MST)

Ah, i see, i was wanted to add a variant rule for the caster at the bottom that removes extra attacks and gives the wizard spellcasting to increase the range of customizability with making Heroic Spirits but sadly i can't, thanks for taking time to respond tho. Sir Satan

Yo, can someone with perms remove the comma after heroic path feature on 14th level? Can someone remove the "speed" spell since that's not a 5e spell as well as remove the meters in the different speed measurement. Sir Satan

This Seems Wrong

I understand the issues this page may cause, but it does still have a balance and wording tag. Locking it for a year seems like majorly overdoing it. Why? --SwankyPants (talk) 10:27, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

Honestly, i have no clue, it kinda happened and stop people fixing it, some of the changes are cool but others are.. just as bad Sir Satan

The reason the page is locked is because there was an editing war between users Lavie and Bedsheets. However, neither of them have bothered to actually discuss the conflict here, which is problematic. 1 year is standard for edit war locks as a sort of incentivisation to discuss, and to ensure it lasts for as long as it needs to.--Ref3rence (talk) 11:11, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

Well, I can certainly voice my opinion if it gets this thing unlocked and worked on again. In my opinion, the reverted version made more sense(?????). It didn’t use meters, didn’t say you gain the benefits of a feat without elaborating further, didn’t use non-existent spells, explained Gate of Babylon better, and a bunch of other things. Of course, there was balance concerns and wording issues, but that’s like saying grass is green, this page is just gonna have problems until it gets massively overhauled. I say the original version is reinstated and becomes unlocked. --SwankyPants (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

Honestly couldn't agree more. While it's likely that Bedsheets may try to reinstate some bad edits, I think that's more of a problem to take up with them, rather than flat out locking the page.--Ref3rence (talk) 11:34, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

Just to be clear, which revision specifically are you asking be reinstated? — Geodude (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 22:30, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

This version here, see here for differences. I understand it's not in the best state, but it's less janky than the current one. Much easier to translate or balance mechanics that make some sense, over others that make less sense.--SwankyPants (talk) 22:38, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

honestly i didn't write here because im a litlle new in this and did't knew how to, to be fair a want to keep the class as much as the original but try to balance a litlle -Bedsheets

Class discussion

This is for talking about class changes and ideas as well as talking out conflict's between changes Sir Satan

So, for those who are fighting over this class i offer a solution, Since the fate franchise is so vast with it's servants why don't we add additional sub-classes for caster or lancer and the other's if you don't agree on the different abilities the subs should have, if we do that we give the players more content to use as well as we all add what we want, as long as it isn't broken. Sir Satan

Honestly just wanted to make sure multiclassing was in. Lavie (talk) 11:53, 28 March 2021 (MDT)

I currently have a rebalanced version of this class here. While I doubt it's perfectly balanced, I believe it to at least be a step in the right direction. As such, I ask that this page be unlocked so that this change, and any consequent rebalancing changes, may be instituted.--Ref3rence (talk) 12:51, 31 August 2021 (MDT)

I've unlocked the page per your request. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 22:18, 1 September 2021 (MDT)

Once Again, On Balance

The page has been locked to allow for discussion on the class' issue of balance. Please do not use excuses like "this is meant to be used as unbalanced material" because I will direct you to make a user page for yourself in that case. Pages displayed on the wiki without intention of being April Fools or restricted in display should be balanced to be examples of the good content this wiki can put out for ALL general tables, not just someone's power trip of a game.--Yanied (talk) 14:00, 8 September 2021 (MDT)

I can't say I'm surprised, I'm just glad it isn't locked AND stubbed this time. As with the other times this page has been locked, I'd love to discuss our changes so we can go back to improving this page in a constructive manner.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:39, 8 September 2021 (MDT)

Okay, here's a feature I take issue with. Magic Familiar reads: "At 1st level, you must choose a separate humanoid creature that is spell caster within your party to be your “Master”. If you drop to 0 hit points or your Master dies, you die instantly and can not be resurrected by any means, including the wish spell, until a time set by the DM. Additionally, your Master has 3 command seals. They may spend a command seal to force you to follow a single spoken command. If no other ending time for this command is given, it lasts until you die."

1) This uses a character trait to define a player relationship, which is not good (I'm assuming "your party" means PCs), and it can lead to an abusive situation. No player should force another player to do anything. 2) If there isn't another spell caster in the party, you're stuck (since it says you must choose one).

Next, I think there's so much crossover with fighter, you may as well make it a fighter subtype. Otherwise, I recommend replacing some of the uniquely Fighter traits like Action Surge and extra Ability Score increases.

Okay, I'm completely confused as to what the theme or archetype of this class is. The subtypes are the broad archetypes of other classes. What is the common theme? What's the difference between a berzerker heroic spirit, and a barbarian with, say, a heroic spirit background? Marasmusine (talk) 15:36, 28 January 2023 (MST)

It's supposed to encompass an entire set of characters from Fate, as far as I can tell. It's gonna be all over the place no matter what. --SwankyPants (talk) 16:38, 28 January 2023 (MST)

I see, I haven't seen it. I had look now at "Heroic Spirit" on the Fate fandom page, and I'm sure this class is taking the wrong approach. There seem to be classes in Fate - archer, caster, etc - those are classes. A "heroic spirit" can have a class; so can a "divine spirit", "elemental", and several others. A "servant" is a summoned spirit and would seem to be a poor choice of player character. It takes energy to summon and maintain a servant. One player runs out of energy - too bad, now the other player is out of the session. Or maybe I won't summon you today.

The only way I see this working is if a "heroic spirit" is some sort of template that can be added on to a normal race/class combo, with a heavy disclaimer about player interaction. Marasmusine (talk) 03:13, 29 January 2023 (MST)