Talk:Persona User (5e Class)

Name Changes and Concern

just a heads up, to stay true to what the Class is based on, All References to Ability Points Should be changed to SP,

I've been following the development of the class and I've noticed that it's started to stray far way from what a Persona User Actually is. I recommend making Variants to the class instead of changing it's core principles.

Balance Concerns

Marasmusine, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Persona series, but the Hamaon and Mudoon lines of spells do typically instantly kill their enemies, so the user's intent is most likely to closely replicate those spells.

That said, they always have a chance of failure; Essentially, these spells aren't unlike Finger of Death or similar Save or Die spells. While I am unsure of any analogues in 5th Edition, we should try to refine them to an acceptable point, and then if necessary, apply Template:Design Disclaimer in accordance with the section of Help:Precedent that deals with accurately representing classes from other media, if any outstanding balance concerns remain.

As for the rest of this, it would seem the user is following the UA:Mystic's example of a central class that varies wildly depending on discipline... or, in this case, its alignment with one of the Major Arcana of Tarot. --Jwguy (talk) 19:43, 15 June 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps a better option would be to have the instant kill spells have a HP maximum while retaining the chance to survive, like Power Word Kill?

--AngelsAndAarakocra (talk) 06:01, 20 August 2017 (MDT)

Fool Arcana

I have got to say that this is a great idea and as a huge Persona fan i went and added the Fool arcana if you have any balance issues please post it on the talk

Full Adaptation

Hey guys. Last month I and my players started a campaign using this Homebrew. We all are fans of the Persona Series, so we tried to make the game become even more like SMT/Persona Universe, adding some new features (Nothing really complex until now). I myself, am thinking of writing something kinda like a Rulebook to play a D20 5th Edition Persona tabletop (Maybe even a Shin Megami Tensei late). Nothing official, just community content (Since here in Brazil, the very few Persona Tabletops are very improvised.)

And I thought of this Homebrew being the base to all. So, I am not only asking for permission, are you interested some way in this project? (And at last, sorry for the bad english, I can read perfectly but typing and speaking...well, just like a Parrot with PTSD.) -- EnslavedDM 00:48, 11 June 2018 (MTD).

TTRPG System

Hello. My name is Michael Lopez and I have started to make a TTRPG system all based on this class. I believe with how much content there is here it's big enough for an entire Persona TTRPG. If it's ok with you I'd like to make modifications and create a whole new system based on your amazingly detailed creation. Jmepic01 (talk) 20:51, 10 November 2020 (MST)Jmepic01

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Jmepic01

Gun's damage modifier

I think Gun type's damage mod should be Dex instead of Str for pretty obvious reasons.

help with tweaks?

ayo im willing to make changes to this entire class, but i don't quite understand which parts of defense need to be tweaked. --KyleFRS (talk) 12:16, 9 May 2022 (MDT)

The Skill List and how it is integrated needs to be reviewed. The limits need to all be nerfed, and the entire integrated structure tweaked so that it matches a form of game design. --Green Dragon (talk) 14:54, 9 May 2022 (MDT)

Okay i'm going to do a bit of an overhaul on the skill list then, but I feel like most of the damage progression of the elemental skills are balanced, since they run on a limited resource. --KyleFRS (talk) 17:31, 9 May 2022 (MDT)

I was wondering about what you meant by "the entire integrated structure tweaked so that it matches a form of game design." Since I feel this class translates the Persona series' arcanas and moves pretty well into D&D's system, though I do admit some of the physical damage skills are a little overtuned.

Yo, I'm willing to help out with the tweaks to this class but I'd like to know where I can start since you already have been doing some edits. Class has always been near and dear to me and I'd hate to see it go. --ThighRash (talk) 04:29, 10 May 2022 (MDT)

I've reworked most of the skills already, only Almighty, Physical and Passive skills remain. I opted to make the class more variable and flexible with the interchangeable Persona modifier, and made the persona controls clearer. I stopped at priest when reworking the Arcanas. Also, I think a lot of the Saving Throw Types for the elements have to be changed, so that the Persona users have a good amount of each ability score saving throws. --KyleFRS (talk) 13:03, 10 May 2022 (MDT)

ok ive changed arcanas up to strength, and i've tweaked all the skills except for the passive skills. i think i nerfed the overall damage and defenses of the class to a reasonable amount, and buffed their AP costs to compensate, so they won't nuke for one attack and then be useless for the rest of the day/encounter. the arcanas usually have a couple features that are identical to the others, such as adding Persona modifier to abilities, getting an extra attack or an extra ability per turn, and i've mostly limited them to those features, and nothing more, since if I were to buff one's extra attack with another feature on top of that, the rest must be recompensated. --KyleFRS (talk) 11:37, 12 May 2022 (MDT)

When it comes to the Emperor Arcana in specific my main priority was giving it a unique feel compared to Empress which it should share some similarities to. As for the changes to Royal Execution, I can dial it back, but I am wondering what are the constraints here when it comes to feeling unique but keeping a good power budget? --ThighRash (talk) 12:14, 12 May 2022 (MDT)

ok on second thought go ahead LOL i realized that i actually nerfed the shit out of this class, with the AOE SP costs being driven up the wall. I've DEFINITELY solved the damage problem, so I don't think some extra features would hurt. all that remains is the broken defensive passive skills, that i can't translate well into D&D. --KyleFRS (talk) 04:18, 14 May 2022 (MDT)

I have a few suggestions that might help this class be a bit better. My first one has to deal with Summoning your persona. I feel like summoning your persona should be a bonus action since it requires an action to command. This will help a lot at earlier levels since your persona might get one shot by anything. This also gives the person the option to attack and not make their persona feel useless at the first few levels. Next thing I feel needs a change is One More. I think One More shouldn't use a reaction when you use it on yourself but instead a bonus action since there isn't a lot of bonus action abilities. It also still gives a chance if you have reaction abilities or need to make opportunity attacks so it can be more useful. Since it doesn't trigger often it will still give the versatility you need if you get put in a bad situation. Another small idea I had was making it so there is another way or an easier way to trigger All Out Attack. Since getting a creature to be knocked prone is hard enough in D&D in most situations since your enemy will either use range or have high enough strength or dexterity to not get knocked prone using the shove action. So it might be useful to add another activation condition or a feature to help with using the ability. Since like one more it's a very situational ability. This last thing I feel needs to be tweaked is that All Out Attack should include yourself. Since it only mentions all allied creatures and not yourself as well. --Hiddenpotential3 (talk) 9:42, 29 May 2022 (EST)

yeah i agree, AOAs usually trigger when you trigger a One More on all the opponents, but that's pretty hard to implement in D&D, as vulnerabilities aren't that common sadly. --KyleFRS (talk) 03:44, 9 June 2022 (MDT)

Unison Attacks

As a person who loves persona Q games I was wondering if any one who works on this page can make a unison attack optional feature where multiple people have to roll to hit at once and when it hits depending on the rolls it does a combined amount of damage. If this seems unreasonable in anyway I would like to know so I can deleted this comment I made. I would also like to thank everyone who has worked or is still working on this class I played it once and had so much fun with it. Most dungeon masters won't let me use it because of the insane amounts of damage tag. Since I am not very good at balancing. This isn't necessary it is just something I would like to see. --Hiddenpotential3 (talk) 8:20, 13 May 2022 (EST)

It shouldn't be too hard to implement but probably as an optional feature depending on how the main class shapes up. --ThighRash (talk) 07:27, 14 May 2022 (MDT)

unison attacks are what they're called in PQ2, but i'm pretty sure they're mechanically identical to all out attacks, which are already implemented. i'm 100% sure that the damage has been --gutted-- nerfed to a reasonable degree though. --KyleFRS (talk) 23:22, 17 May 2022 (MDT)

That makes a lot of sense. I never really thought of it that way. Thank you for that information. --Hiddenpotential3 (talk) 9:36, 23 May 2022 (EST)

on extra attacks and halving ability costs

I think persona users should only be able to use one ability per turn, and all instances of "extra attack" but for abilities should be removed, since the damage progression of the persona user is already there as you gain higher level spells, inflating the dpr exponentially, if they can use more than one ability per turn. Unless the prerequisite is steep, like the innate all out attack. Another thing is that I think halving ability costs should also have a steep cost like arms master and spell master, though I could see it being fine on healing spells, since it usually isn't optimal to heal in combat in the first place. --KyleFRS (talk) 12:42, 6 October 2022 (MDT)