Talk:Martial Artist (Dragon Ball Supplement)/Archive 1

Fulfilled Requests

How's some more things?

• Building for dexterity seems like a generally bad idea. Very few transformations improve it(quite a few lowering it), and even one of the grades drops your modifier by 2. I'm not sure if it would conflict with the source material, but maybe just some other dex increases would be nice.
• Using ki blasts before 14th level is a raw deal and a half. Since they only come back on a long rest, using them quickly drains your resources. Only useful for the bonuses given by other techniques, and even those are really expensive. Maybe making them cheaper, like having no cost for your first on your turn?
  • Speaking of 14th level, before that point, you have resource problems. First tier, you're looking at 3 on the low end, 9 on the high end, also considering the fact you want other scores high too for the sake of your damage and AC. Maybe some form of reduced Ki Charge would be really helpful on those early levels.

Off the top of my head. More I've probably forgotten. --SwankyPants (talk) 10:58, 2 June 2021 (MDT)

If we're gonna do something about the ki blasts I'd say there should be a set number of the number of "free" ki blasts you can use per day. So maybe it should be being able to ki blast a number of times equal to the character's proficieny bonus per long or short rest before you have to spend ki? I've deliberately avoided mentioning mods due to how high they would get and 25 free ki blasts isn't really nice is it?

And for the resource problem I really think there should be a way to regain ki over a short rest, maybe your con mod of ki or half your level. That's better, even narratively, for example the players taking a break in a foreign area to regain their energy and start traveling again. P@uL (talk) 11:56, 2 June 2021 (MDT)

Thanks for the feedback!

• Dexterity in this setting is roughly equivalent to Strength, determining unarmed strikes, half your AC (more so with light armor if you have low Strength), at 7th level your Ki attack modifier and DC will most likely be determined by Dex through Resistant since they're the most common full/half saves in 5e, and more useful skills (and more skills in general) than any other primary score for this class. While very few transformations exclusively increase Dexterity, the vast majority increase it, with Liquefaction alone making Dex a VERY powerful main in my opinion. That being said, I could see about adding a few more dex-exclusive transformations.
• Ki blasts aren't meant to be the type of thing you use for every attack, and they aren't any more draining than a monk using flurry of blows (technically less so since you can add your Constitution modifier to your ki points, and the lowest ability score most methods allow is 8, which can easily be brought to 10). If we do decide to buff it in some way, I'd suggest making it a free action that increases all of your unarmed strikes' reach by your movement speed.
  • Not entirely sure what you mean by "first tier, low end, high end", would you mind elaborating? Personally, the best solution looks like allowing a player to regain ki points at the end of a short rest.

Thoughts?--Ref3rence (talk) 12:12, 2 June 2021 (MDT)

• I was mostly referring to stuff before Liquifaction. Strength gets Four Witches, Powerhouse, and others before Legendary tier, some available to aliens even faster. It’s strong, yeah, but still not as easily improved as Strength is, without the downsides of things like Rage State. I’d be all for lower tier stuff.
• Sounds fair to me.
  • First tier is 1st to 5th level, low end was 1st level with a +2 modifier, high end was 5th level with a +4 modifier. Probably should’ve been more clear. Either way, I’m all good with short rest recharge, maybe once per long rest like the wizard’s Arcane Recovery.

Happy to help. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:23, 2 June 2021 (MDT)

I like your idea with the ki blasts but I think it should be a bonus action instead of a free action. With a free action being for 1 additional ki point due to it allowing that to be stacked with flurry of blows? And I agree with SwankyPants on the short rest recharge limit. P@uL (talk) 12:33, 2 June 2021 (MDT)

Sounds great!--Ref3rence (talk) 12:38, 2 June 2021 (MDT)

So guys, as you know I'm pretty new to editing stuff here, I've got the grasp of some stuff but I have no idea how to put Dragon balls (Dragon Ball Supplement) in the the Treasure (Dragon Ball Supplement) list so some help or piece of advice on how to would be nice lmao. P@uL (talk) 05:39, 3 June 2021 (MDT)

I'm no DPL wizard, but I found a way.

• It was looking for pages with the Treasure category. As nothing uses this, I just changed it to magic item.
• Since there's only one item in the setting, changed it to franchise.

Now stuff should show up right. --SwankyPants (talk) 05:45, 3 June 2021 (MDT)

Alright, many thanks. P@uL (talk) 05:58, 3 June 2021 (MDT)

I saw there's an old page about the dragon balls, should I just merge that with the new one? P@uL (talk) 06:58, 3 June 2021 (MDT)

Merge. Keep the mechanics of the old one, and represent the other ones through variants on the same page. --SwankyPants (talk) 07:05, 3 June 2021 (MDT)

Done P@uL (talk) 07:24, 3 June 2021 (MDT)

Did any of you think about a technique that makes your unarmed strike blow an enemy away? As that's a large part of the series. P@uL (talk) 05:59, 4 June 2021 (MDT)

Here's one, I guess.

• Massive Blow
• Fundamental
• Cost: 1+ ki
• When you hit a creature with an unarmed strike, you can use a free action to turn it into a massive hit. They must make a Strength saving throw, or be moved up to the damage dealt in feet, rounded to the nearest 5. On a failure, they only move half the distance. They can only move a maximum of 15 feet for every ki point you spend making it a massive hit.

How's it look? --SwankyPants (talk) 06:11, 4 June 2021 (MDT)

That looks great, what if the massive hit sends the target into an object or another creature though? P@uL (talk) 06:20, 4 June 2021 (MDT)

Nothing RAW, and I've got concerns if we bloat this feature further, but I'd say they take have to make a dex save or take half the damage the creature that was hit took, stopping the creature from moving further back. If that knocks them to 0 hitpoints, they keep moving instead. --SwankyPants (talk) 06:24, 4 June 2021 (MDT)

So something like this: If the targeted creature impact another creature or object, the other creature must roll a dexterity save or take half the damage the target took and stopping them from moving further unless the damage reduced them to 0 hp. On the case the impact was with an object, the targeted creature must make the dexterity save, crashing through the object and continuing the movement if the object was reduced to 0 hit points? P@uL (talk) 06:33, 4 June 2021 (MDT)

Well, objects can’t make dex saves, so they just automatically take the damage, creature making no save. But yeah, that’s about right. --SwankyPants (talk) 06:40, 4 June 2021 (MDT)

Also I think Body change should swap race features. Or at least make the one its done against unable to access those race features. P@uL (talk) 04:31, 5 June 2021 (MDT)

Would any of you guys be interested in the Kiai getting added? P@uL (talk) 04:14, 17 June 2021 (MDT)

How's this?

• Kiai
• Requirements:Ki Sense
• As an action, each creature within 10 feet must succeed a Strength saving throw or take 1d8 force damage and be pushed to the edge of this technique’s range. You can add 1d8 damage and 10 feet to the affected radius and the distance the target is pushed for every additional ki point spent up to your maximum Ki Sense range. You may spend 4 additional ki separate from the previous effects to use this as a reaction, causing the attacks it may be made in response to miss in addition to its normal effects.

Alternatively you may use this as part of a ki blast, in doing so it becomes a line and its range equal to the ki blast's.

That's a start I think? P@uL (talk) 04:39, 17 June 2021 (MDT)

Looks good to me, I'll get to adding this.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:34, 17 June 2021 (MDT)

Yo, my buddies and I have been using this class along with the bestiary(what's available and using some imrprov) to run a game in DB, and I was wondering if someone could take another look at four witches. My players are currently level 36/37 and I have a Super Saiyan 1 beating the snot out of a Super Saiyan 3 because he can launch twice the attacks the other can. Am I doing something wrong or is Four Witches supposed to be this powerful? --Deducted

Oh boy, I never even thought of that. Definetely not intended, as it's a Basic transformation you can pay hitpoints for. FW should probably stick to just granting an extra bonus action, so you have to properly dish out for those extra attacks with flurries of blows. Good catch. --SwankyPants (talk) 06:29, 26 October 2021 (MDT)

Another thing was Evil Saiyan, it's a bit pricey for the small boost it gives, granted this can be stacked with Forms. I was doing some thinking and thought what if Evil Saiyan Granted 1 ki every turn? I'm nowhere near the best when it comes to balancing, but it would allow players and NPCs alike to mitigate the cost for super Saiyan 1 and 2(or if they have grade 4, grant them small amounts of Ki). If used on SS3 that has Grade 5, it would reduce the cost to basically zero. Replicating the seemingly indefinite longevity of Cumbers SS3. Again I'm not the best at this, so feel free to poke holes in my offer. --Deducted

I doubt it'll make much sense, but Legendary Super Saiyan does grant 3 ki a turn. If you pair it with a Grade 1 SS3, it would last forever, and mixing ESS with SS3, so long as at least one is Grade 4, you would only lose 1 point a turn. Certainly one way to reach that indefinite longevity through mechanics.

Either way, maybe ESS should get some changes. Ki regeneration to make it kinda like a minor LSS could probably do that well, I'd think. --SwankyPants (talk) 10:49, 26 October 2021 (MDT)

Yo, I had a question regarding Grade 4, do you still receive the minus 4 to Dex from grade 3? -- Deducted

As stated in Grade 4 "you may choose to ignore any effects of the transformation of your choice". While there are some exceptions, this was intended to primarily allow one to avoid the effects of Grade 3, as Grades are not listed as their own transformations, and are instead additional elements of the transformation you took it for. While I was writing it up, this was clarified by having a +4 Dex increase, but I was worried the rules would allow for overlap resulting in a +4, rather than total +0.--Ref3rence (talk) 08:11, 14 November 2021 (MST)

Treasure/Magic items

Made this header to keep the talk page more organized.

So I've been thinking about making the dragon radar, but I can't come up with anything at the moment. Any thoughts on this? P@uL (talk) 17:31, 7 June 2021 (MDT)

No idea how it would work exactly but the wiki gives me a rough idea.

• "As an action, you can turn the radar on or off. While the radar is on, you know the direction, but not exact location, of any dragon ball within X range."

So? --SwankyPants (talk) 17:42, 7 June 2021 (MDT)

Well that's a start, can't really think of anything to add to that on the moment since that's its only function. But a little bit of thought and I'll try to think up some more interesting mechanic to it. P@uL (talk) 18:18, 7 June 2021 (MDT)

I mean, it is just a radar, is it not? Don't need to make it more of a hassle than it should be. --SwankyPants (talk) 18:33, 7 June 2021 (MDT)

Yeah you have a point, how about the range requirement get removed though? instead replaced with a once per rest scan and upgraded versions being able to find other types of dragon balls? P@uL (talk) 18:46, 7 June 2021 (MDT)

I'm gonna have to agree with Swank on this one, let's not overcomplicate it. Bulma didn't have to upgrade the radar to detect the namekian dragon balls, it just did. I think it would be reasonable to have the range be limited to the planet, with an optional upgrade to be able to detect dragon balls of a chosen type without range restriction like we see in GT.--Ref3rence (talk) 20:00, 7 June 2021 (MDT)

Sounds good, I'll get to making that after some hours, but feel free to make it before I do if you want. P@uL (talk) 20:07, 7 June 2021 (MDT)

Got to making the radar, have a look. Dragon Radar (5e Equipment) P@uL (talk) 07:38, 8 June 2021 (MDT)

Looks good to me. Personally, I find the upgrading bit a little odd, and it could probably be changed to just a rarer variant, but that’s only a nitpick/personal preference. Nice job. --SwankyPants (talk) 07:41, 8 June 2021 (MDT)

Now how about weighted clothing? The Weights of Guts (5e Equipment) make a good example, we could just carry that over, with some tweaks if any are needed but it looks good to me. P@uL (talk) 09:15, 8 June 2021 (MDT)

• Weighted Clothing (5e Equipment) I went ahead and did it, just added tiers.

P@uL (talk) 05:17, 9 June 2021 (MDT)

Ultra instinct sign

Don't any of you find it strange that ultra instinct is on the page but ultra instinct sign isn't? It might be just an incomplete version of ultra instinct but nevertheless it should be on the page, seeing as super saiyan A is also a suppressed version of broly's super Saiyan. And ultra instinct sign comes before ultra instinct itself so the latter should rely on the former like the super Saiyan forms do. P@uL (talk) 10:04, 10 June 2021 (MDT)

My initial thought in not adding it was that, since Ultra Instinct was a mastered form of Sign, that the UI you take is UIS, and that its Grade 4/5 would be MUI, but now that I'm actually getting around to reading the Super manga, you're right. I'm currently adding a handful of forms, so it won't be immediate, but I'll get around to it.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:10, 10 June 2021 (MDT)

Recoome Ultra Fighting Bomber

God, that names a mouthful. Anyways, it kinda sucks.

For comparison's sake, we're using a 15th level character with an 18(+4) in both their Strength and Constitution. This gives them a +9 ki attack bonus, 19 ki points, and an average 5 ki charge.

RUFB has a charging time of 3 rounds, and deals an average 51(6d8 + 27) damage. Galick Gun has a charge of 1.5, and deals 39 (6d10 + 9) damage.

At the cost of 10 ki, you can just use GG twice to deal more damage, with less risk of having your concentration broken, and potentially even taking turns inbetween uses, which allows you to use ki charge, which on average will just refund your GG. Also noting that GG is Basic, this is an issue.

Either way, I see zero use case for this technique. Need a decent amount of cheap area damage? Use one of the knockoff fireballs with falloff. Getting swarmed? Pop Kiai, as it's both instant and gets idiots of your back at an even lesser price.

It's superseded by just about any other technique that deals damage.

Of course, I need to recommend fixes.

• SIGNIFICANTLY more damage.
• Potentially the inability to interrupt the charge, so that the damage is basically confirmed.
• Built-in Massive Blow?

I'd personally either do the first one, or combine the last two(with a little extra damage). --SwankyPants (talk) 10:06, 11 August 2021 (MDT)

Time Breaker

My god, I'm posting way too much. Anyways, Time Breaker's condition immunity is basically worthless, because 5/9 of them you are already immune to, and have been for two levels. This could probably use a small tweak. --SwankyPants (talk) 21:16, 12 August 2021 (MDT)

While it is redundant, it's intentional, since on the off chance a player is gifted this feature through the Enlightened Training boon before 51st, they should still get the full effect of the feature.--Ref3rence (talk) 09:10, 13 August 2021 (MDT)