Talk:Lots and Lots of Spells (DnD Optimized Character Build)

Rules...

I don't believe that you can advance the spellcasting of a class that doesn't have its own spell list. Good thought, though. -- OptimizationFanatic 18:22, 18 March 2008 (MDT)

However, you could go wizard 3/druid 3/arcane heirophant 10/mystic theurge 4 and cast spells as 17th-level druid and a 17th-level wizard. —Sledged (talk) 18:11, 20 March 2008 (MDT)

That was my first thought when I saw this "hey you can't do that" but does it actually say somewhere? --Hawk 20:40, 20 March 2008 (MDT)

I looked and it doesn't say anywhere that you can't. It only says that you advance the spells per day of the existing class. It doesn't say anything about the existing class needing a spell list. If someone can tell me where they found that I can't, then I will be glad to accept that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Envoy2500 (talk • contribs) 19:00, 24 March 2008 (MST). Please sign your posts.

But it does say that you can only advance the spells-per-day of a "spellcasting class". Mystic Theurge isn't a spellcasting class since it doesn't in itself have the ability to cast spells. It can only advance the spells of another class. To be a "spellcasting class", something has to be able to cast spells on its own (like warlock, sorcerer, wizard, bard, etc). --Othtim 19:09, 24 March 2008 (MDT)

Ultimately, the question is "How will the DM see it?" —Sledged (talk) 20:52, 24 March 2008 (MDT)

I think it's setting a bad example to disregard the rules of DnD and have this page without a disclaimer. 99% of people would agree that "this doesn't work like this", but here we have it. A note or somesuch to denote this page is using variant rules is necessary. --Othtim 16:52, 26 March 2008 (MDT)

I just realized that even under this exploitive interpretation of the rules, this build's spellcasting abilities will be the same as a wizard 5/cleric 5/mystic theurge 10. Once you take that 9th level of loremaster, you're spellcasting increases as though you gained the 11th level of MT, and the epic MT's spell progression says:

When an odd-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1. When an even-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1.

—Sledged (talk) 01:27, 27 March 2008 (MDT)

And, deleted. --Green Dragon 00:07, 28 March 2008 (MDT)

The decision is up to your individual DM in the end. Mine could not find anything in any of his books that would not allow this so he let me use it. If you or your DM don't think it should be used, simply don't use it. That doesn't mean you should delete it and not allow anyone to see it. That is outright censorship and is un-American. There, I said it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Envoy2500 (talk • contribs) 21:25, 3 April 2008 (MST). Please sign your posts.

I Once thought of the same idea myself, but it was shot down first. See the Discussion: Thaumateurge of Charisma, Anyone?. --Sir Milo Teabag 06:45, 4 April 2008 (MDT)

Un-American or unconstitutional? They're not necessarily the same thing. If you want an American approach, perhaps you'll be happy if we let democracy decide whether or not the page gets deleted. Either way, (a) it's Green Dragon's site, so he has the final say, and (b) even under your interpretation, the build is not going to get you 9th level spells in neither wizard nor cleric. —Sledged (talk) 10:11, 4 April 2008 (MDT)

Oh, but it will get you to 9th level in both because it would theoretically let you have the spells per day of a level 17 Wizard and a level 17 Cleric. Both of which have 9th level spells. Also it would be un-American becaus it goes against an ideal that has become part of American living not a right as enumerated by the Constitution itself. Besides, that shouldn't even be a topic of disscution since it was only added for dramatic effect. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Envoy2500 (talk • contribs) 16:51, 16 April 2008 (MST). Please sign your posts.

←Reverted indentation to one colon

I'm not American. Can I delete it? --TK-Squared 12:44, 17 April 2008 (MDT)

The reason this was deleted was because this build did not work. There is no need to keep broken builds on D&D Wiki. People are not coming here looking for ways to cheat D&D outside of the rules, they are coming here looking for a way to cheat D&D inside the rules. Un-American (is that supposed to be an insult?) or not, if a build does not work it should get deleted, and that was my reasoning. So, the question that remains is: Is this build legal? If that is so it can stay, if not it should get deleted. --Green Dragon 14:35, 17 April 2008 (MDT)

No, you won't get 9th level spells in both. Though you're theoretically casting spells as a wizard 3/cleric 3/mystic theurge 14, the spellcasting progression for mystic theurge changes after 10th level. It no longer grants an increase to both classes simultaneously. It alternates between the two, instead. So by 20th level, you're casting spells as a 15th-level wizard and a 15th-level cleric. —Sledged (talk) 11:37, 18 April 2008 (MDT)

And, deleted. --Green Dragon 22:57, 5 May 2008 (MDT)