User talk:TeslaFistforge/Vee (5e Race)

How I am Making This Race

Please do not edit anything on the main page without discussing it with me first, otherwise, the edit may be reverted without warning.

I may not be working on this project at the moment very much but I have not abandoned it yet. For my sake and the sake of everyone who is making edits, I am going to be laying out how I designed the mechanical side of this race without having to make nine or so individual races. (That probably would have made me crazy.)

The Ability Scores

The following list was used to assign Pokemon stats to D&D ability scores: attack to strength, speed to dexterity, hit points to constitution, special attack to intelligence, defense to wisdom, and special defense to charisma. I then took the two highest stats from the respective eeveelution and applied the double ability score increase to the highest stat and the single ability score increase to the second-highest stat.

The Cantrips

My plan is for every sub-race to have innate magic in the form of two cantrips: an elemental control cantrip and a damage cantrip based on the move learned on evolution by the respective eeveelution in pokemon. A few of the control cantrips were obtained from WotC sources (such as elemental evil) but some of the control cantrips and all of the damage cantrips are being worked on by me. The elemental control cantrips are being designed in the style of official elemental control cantrips. The damage cantrips are in a more specific style. Here is a basic template of what I am using to make the damage cantrips: "The target must succeed on a saving throw. On a failed save, the target takes 1d8 damage and receives a weak secondary effect".

The Damage Resistance

The damage resistances are set up so that every sub-race is only resistant to its own element. It would be insane to try to set up all of the type match-ups that are present in the standard pokemon games as over half of the types could not be easily represented without making a full variant ruleset. However, there were still a few sub-races that didn't have anything for this slot. For the water vee, I used this slot for its aquatic capabilities but as of my writing this I have not finished the other sub-races that would have this problem.

The Ability Trait

This slot is reserved for a sub-races equivalent pokemon's ability, whether it be its standard ability or its hidden ability. The tricky thing about designing this part of the sub-races is that sometimes there is an obvious solution of how to set up the ability but it breaks the balance of the game. For example, the electric vee's ability could quite easily be "volt absorb". But then your party's wizard can now heal a party member by shooting lightning bolts at them. Even without this, it destabilizes the already quite strange hit-point economy. Also, for the sake of simplicity, I was only intending to implement one of the two abilities available, as trying to faithfully replicate both abilities would result in a very unbalanced race overall.

The Poke-Dex Trait

This trait is the least defined of any of the other traits. They are, as the name implies, primarily influenced by the Pokedex entries. However, some of the traits in this slot are just things that make sense given the context (eg. dark vee having darkvision).

Sorry if this is at all confusing or all over the place. TeslaFistforge (talk) 11:48, 10 September 2020 (MDT)

PS. Something I noticed after looking through the race again, is that the unevolved vee does not follow the same guidelines that were used for the other sub-races. However, I believe that this is not a significant issue, as many of the traits that were discussed above would not have been compatible with the unevolved vee. TeslaFistforge (talk) 21:46, 12 September 2020 (MDT)

I am "pining" (I know this isn't discord) this to the top of the page to be more visible to anyone who is viewing the talk page. TeslaFistforge (talk) 11:15, 21 September 2020 (MDT)

My First Project

This is my first time making a race and the first time using this site so any constructive criticism would be very helpful. TeslaFistforge (talk) 00:18, 24 November 2019‎ (MDT)

What do you mean by Vee? Is it Eevee? And if so, shouldn't the subraces be espeon, jolteon, vaporeon, flareon, and the rest? Just my thoughts, tell me if I'm missing something. Also, sign your name with your comments. It's 4 tildes (~) and the admin get upset when you don't. --Flamestarter (talk) 07:15, 15 February 2020 (MST)

There are a few reasons I decided to call the race and sub-races “Vee” instead of Eevee. First, it's not exactly a normal Eevee from pokemon, it's a humanoid Eevee. Second, if I went with the original pokemon names, one of the sub-races would be called Sylveon. I believe there is a Sylveon race already on this wiki and I didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes. Lastly, I didn’t want the names to be an exact copy of pokemon so that the race could work in a larger variety of campaign settings. I also wanted to have a bit more creative license and freedom. (P.S. Sorry for not replying sooner. I have had writer’s block with this project, so I haven't been working on it very much and I didn’t see your message until a few weeks ago.) TeslaFistforge (talk) 11:30, 4 April 2020 (MDT)

I understand where you're coming from, and I respect your creativity. If I use this race and its subraces though, I will call them by the Pokémon names. All in all, I enjoy the idea behind this race. --Flamestarter (talk) 17:15, 11 April 2020 (MDT)

I'd like to make a suggestion: instead of simply cantrips for the innate magic in the race, make one a cantrip and the other a 1st level spell. I only say this because the best thing I could find to help out with the Fairy Vee subrace was charm person, but that's 1st level. --Flamestarter (talk) 13:55, 17 May 2020 (MDT)

I may end up doing your idea eventually if my idea doesn't work out. But for now, my plan is to make each sub-race have a control cantrip (element control not crowd control) and a damage cantrip for their respective element. The damage cantrip is going to be based on the move that the respective eeveelution gets upon evolution in the games.

On the topic of the Fairy Vee, I had thought about giving it "friends" but as I looked into it, I found out that "friends" is garbage. I may end trying to make a variant of "friends" (because it could probably use it) or make a cantrip level version of "charm person" but I am not sure at this point.

A bit of a side note but I was hoping to add a bit of lore to each of the sub-races. How hard is that to do? I haven't tried it myself yet but I heard that it is tricky. TeslaFistforge (talk) 15:18, 17 May 2020 (MDT)

With this many subraces? That will be a bear to work with. I can help you since I know a lot about Pokémon, but you'd have to explain why different vee turn out differently and where their abilities come from. Not to mention their individual attitudes among the majority for the fluff. This is easy to do with ONE race, but take a look at my elementborn race and you'll see what I mean. I had to explain 5 different subraces and you want 9 at most. It's tough, I'll tell you that, but not impossible. Again, I can help you or find someone to help if you need it. Flamestarter (talk) 08:41, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

I feel like I didn't communicate what I meant very well, I am sorry for that. I don't communicate very well over text. Moving on, I have a pretty good idea for what I want to do for the actual lore itself, I just didn't know if the formating would break if I tried to put it in but I just tried it earlier and it worked fine. TeslaFistforge (talk) 14:22, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

Oh, well, good for you. I'm glad it all worked out ok! And I don't think it was your communication, but my interpretation, so don't feel bad. :) Flamestarter (talk) 19:00, 18 May 2020 (MDT)

Variant Might Help

I'm going to change the design note to a disclaimer for clarity of the risks in this race. However, if you want to make a different version of it that is more standardized to normal 5e races, you can make a variant on the page, kind of like how the Alolan Marowak (5e Race) and Marilith (5e Race) do.--Yanied (talk) 11:53, 19 May 2020 (MDT)

I had thought about using the disclaimer instead of the note but I decided not to use it because the disclaimer can be a bit intimidating and I didn't want to scare anyone off. However, if you think it is better this way I will accept. You are an admin so you probably know better then I do. TeslaFistforge (talk) 12:37, 19 May 2020 (MDT)

The disclaimer is mainly for radical changes or notifications, which, in the case of possibly being underpowered, I think is important to highlight. If it seems overkill, you can revert it to the note.--Yanied (talk) 13:02, 19 May 2020 (MDT)

To quote from the editing screen:

"If you do not want your work to be mercilessly edited and redistributed at will, then please do not submit it here. This means NOBODY is allowed to say 'this page is mine and mine only don't edit without telling me'. I like your race, TeslaFistforge, but that doesn't mean I agree to the rule of 'this page is mine'. This is a COMMUNITY wiki. A community wiki doesn't have rules that say 'if you created a page, you own it, and no one but you is able to edit it'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FlickerTheFlareon (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

The comments here are almost a year old, and he stopped editing the page in september. What's the problem here, pal? --SwankyPants (talk) 11:21, 7 February 2021 (MST)

Oh, nothing, I just love the page and wanted to improve. I was worried this guy would get mad for me editing the page. I'm making an account.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by FlickerTheFlareon (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

Excuse me?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 99% of that content was either

1. Lore
2. Actually filling placeholders

They improved the page, medical emergency or not. You have zero right to undo all of that. --SwankyPants (talk) 13:24, 24 February 2021 (MST)

In my obviously biased opinion, they messed up quite a lot of what I had planned and didn't listen to my request to run their edits past me. What do you think I should do? Because I feel like they are running away with a race that I worked hard on. TeslaFistforge (talk) 14:00, 24 February 2021 (MST)

How were they supposed to run it by you? You were dealing with a medical emergency, and hadn't touched the wiki in months. How long were they supposed to wait for their edits(which you do not control) to be denied by someone that doesn't like the spells they picked out, or the minimal lore they added?

What was your vision? How does removing placeholders and adding spells violate that? Did you even look at what they changed? --SwankyPants (talk) 14:08, 24 February 2021 (MST)

Yes, I did read all of their changes. The only change that didn't ruin my vision of the race was the extra names (I can keep those if you want). To answer your question: with the lore placeholders, I had planned to have relatively elaborate lore for each sub-race (to be fair, I didn't say this anywhere) but they took the shortest route and just added a single sentence; with the spells, (this should be in the "How I am Making This Race" category above) I specifically said two cantrips for each sub-race, one elemental damage and the other elemental manipulation. I had already considered all first-party cantrips and I actually have a few in the race but the rest of the cantrips I was working on myself. I don't want any 1st level spells in the sub-races but several users/ips in the past have tried to put them in the sub-races before and I have removed them. They took away the intentional vagueness of the race by adding specific pokemon names which I was trying to avoid. They also added two new unwanted subraces, one that even has resistance to all magical damage, which I believe is very imbalanced.

Btw, it is chronic health problems that flared up over the last few years. I also frequently get writer's block, which together makes it so that I make edits very slowly. I still try to check up on my race every once and a while but over the last few months, I have had severe writer's block and have been pursuing other projects while I try to break through it. TeslaFistforge (talk) 15:29, 24 February 2021 (MST)

I forgot to say this but I was planning to fill in the placeholders once I break through my writer's block. TeslaFistforge (talk) 16:08, 24 February 2021 (MST)

I would assume you would add to it after getting past that block, but there's still one problem, nothing was done with it. Something was better than nothing, and this was something. You are completely free to change these spells gained, but simply getting rid of all of them isn't too great. I don't entirely agree with the other new subraces, they can be fixed.

You're allowed to fix/change content, but what that edit did was unfinish content. I wish you luck on dealing with that writer's block. --SwankyPants (talk) 16:28, 24 February 2021 (MST)

Thank you for the kind words. As for the sub-races we will have to agree to disagree. TeslaFistforge (talk) 17:37, 24 February 2021 (MST)

Okay definitely not what I meant. I mean leave the existing spells because it's better than absolutely no content. You can certainly change what the current spells are but you could at least leave it playable, since you just turned functional content into nonfunctional content. --SwankyPants (talk) 17:48, 24 February 2021 (MST)

I was planning to try to get the race playable, ie. making the rest of the cantrips, tomorrow. TeslaFistforge (talk) 18:21, 24 February 2021 (MST)

Just want to put it out there that I agree with SwankyPants' analysis of the situation. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 18:38, 24 February 2021 (MST)

Looking over the changes, the two overpowered subraces were probably no help, but the rest of the changes that were fluff could have been integrated, though I do understand if you don't want this race to be specific with the eevee names. In general, this race definitely seems to have been designed VERY specifically by you Tesla. In that case, it may have been a better idea to construct it in a userspace before publishing it, completely finished. Keep in mind that using a WIP tag doesn't stop anyone from adding their two cents, and a WIP usually becomes a stub after a month or two of inactivity. But while it is a WIP and the user is present and active, I do think it is ok for the placeholders to remain.--Yanied (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2021 (MST)

Unfortunately, I started working on this race before I even knew that you could work on a race on your profile, otherwise I probably would have. TeslaFistforge (talk) 10:54, 25 February 2021 (MST)

All right, I added some cantrips in the placeholder spots. At this point, it should technically be at a similar level of playability to the edits that I reverted but definitely not at the level of quailty I would like it to be. I will be attempting to continue to make improvements. TeslaFistforge (talk) 14:32, 25 February 2021 (MST)

Ugh.

Look, I need something to base the material for my variant off and this guy just reverted EVERYTHING. Just move it to your user namespace and learn the nr. 1 rule: You're not allowed to say "this page is mine" unless it's on your user namespace. NOW what do I do? It's horrible, I made helpful changes and you dumped them. I mean, didn't you even try to check it? I need something I can reference from. STOP. REVERTING. UNLESS. YOU. SEE. SOMETHING. WRONG! Seriously, I'll just make a Variant Vee I will reference to instead of THIS.

With quite a lot of displeasure,

FlickerTheFlareon (talk) 03:44, 10 March 2021 (MST)

If you look through the discussion above, you can see all of my opinions and problems with your edits. If you want to make a variant of this race, be my guest. You could even use that blessed vee race that you already have. Also, I never said that this page was mine and no one else is allowed to edit it. The notice at the top was intended in the spirit of helpful and cooperative editing, which you seem to have no interest in. The "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." notice was intended in this same spirit and does not give you the right to ruin a page.

TeslaFistforge (talk) 14:47, 10 March 2021 (MST)

Depends on your point of view. I'm like, done with it, and if you really need people to check out the talk before editing, put THAT in the notice. Also I admit I'm kinda sorry for not checking the talk page first but unless you take the necessary precautions it can happen again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FlickerTheFlareon (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.