Talk:Mech Pilot (5e Class)

I hope you like my homebrew. There has been a bit playtesting but more could definitely be useful. If you have any ideas, problems or improvements, please let me know here!

--Shorty181 (talk) 3:16, 26 April 2020 (MDT)

Man, i love to death this concept! But, i do have some feedback to give you, after first reading, concerning some problems i noticed: 1) When your mecha is destroyed, you are deprived of your main feature. Two days is a pretty long time to fix the bot, and is also a random measure. Like, what two days mean? 48 hours? two long rests? And you said that you need metal, but maybe specify how many gold worth of metal is better. Something along the lines of the Beastmaster feature (8 hours of work and 10 gp/level of materials) or something like that. Or maybe even a fixed amount of gold (like 50 gp).

2) This class does not have subclasses. I don't know if this is intentional or not, but would be pretty cool different archetypes of mecha pilots.

3) The mecha is mechanical or magical in nature? Or a mix of both, like the artificer creations? Would be good to specify that, so players can understand the lore behind the class. This are some of may points, but overall i like the idea and i hope you keep improving on it! Anastacio (talk) 02:16, 19 May 2020 (MDT)

4) Other thing, but this is not much of a concern, but a idea: Why don't unify the recharging of the modules? Making everything short rest or long rest would be easier for the player to manage resources. You could even use a "slot" or "point" system for this, creating a currency in points for the activation of the modules. This would make balancing easier too, because you would be able to use the spell level as a guideline to establish the module activation cost. Anastacio (talk) 02:23, 19 May 2020 (MDT)

Thank you for your honest feedback! Unfortunately, I do not have the time to think too much about the class right now. The "history tab shows when I changed anything, so look out for this! ^^

1) Yes, 2 days is no good design, I will use your 8h work measure and calculate the material cost to rebuild a mech. Anyways, you should be punished for getting your mech completely destroyed (e.g. fall down a cliff), so you will have to live as a commoner until rebuilt.

2) It does not have a subclass since 1) I like the Warlock's concept of choosing whatever you like and 2) This class was a lot of work (this is Version 5.2.6) and a lot of reworks, so I did not think of a subclass. Do you have any ideas for a possible subclass?

3) Since DnD is typically in a high-fantasy world, I wanted to keep it that way. Unfortunately, it all sounds more sci-fi-y than I want it to. Do you know, how to improve on that? Originally, I did not want the class to be one-directional, so a player should have an own idea, how it was built. In hindsight, I should have been a bit more flavorful in the descriptions.

4) Some Modules are a bit weaker than others, so I wanted to balance this a bit by allowing some modules to be reusable after a short rest. But I will look into it!

If you playtest this, please give me feedback if something is unbalanced/unfun. This can only be balanced with playtesting.

--Shorty181 (talk) 4:50, 19 May 2020 (MDT)

I do have some ideas of subclass. I will write them, with time, on my user page and will post here when i do it, with some of my ideas for changes i would made!

Some Problems

Overall, I'm a really big fan of this class, although it has a few flaws. I'll cover every feature that has a problem, starting with...

Weapon Proficiencies - A class that mainly uses weapons, but only has simple weapon proficiency? This feels like an oversight.

The Mech - The biggest problem here is probably the AC. Any class that gets armor as starting equipment probably has a higher AC, compared to your own dinky 14. While this can be increased by Modules, Fighting Styles, and Upgraded Armor, it's still really dangerous to fight in this thing at level 1, as your, at best, 10 Mech Hitpoints don't go really far, considering a likely melee focus, and it being a construct means it can't be healed by normal means.

Also, do you have to use your own Strength modifier to attack? It says you can use Intelligence in the place of Strength for checks, but that doesn't cover attack or damage rolls.

Combat/Utility Modules - An invocation-esc system was probably the best way to go about this, and I'm a real big fan. No fault of the system however, is the balancing of some of these. Missiles are objectively better than all of the damaging modules. With no extra upgrade to improve damage(unlike the flamethrower), a base amount of uses higher than other modules, which also increase, and can be doubled, along with Missile Barrage letting you pull off 30d6 at high levels, it's a lot. Maybe reducing the power level of Missiles is a good idea, but I think there should be some focus on improving the other damaging modules(Poison Gas, Shock Blast, Flamethrower) up to the level of Missiles. There isn't much problem with the Utility Modules though. Maybe if they didn't give as many proficiencies, or if you only had them in the mech or something like that. Whatever works.

Fighting Style - Your already hampered AC basically forces you to snag Defense, but I already talked about this. If you go about fixing that, add more fighting styles too. Only having Dual Wielding kinda forces it on you, and if someone wants to run something different, they don't exactly get a boost for it.

Headlights/Ejection Seat - Why? I mean, sure, these might come in handy somewhere? Also, Ejection Seat doesn't specify how high it throws you.

Upgraded Armor - Basically the fighting styles but with less choice. Not that it matters, because you'll definetly grab the +2 AC anyways, which is probably an issue.

Safekeeping - Way too late for a single damage resistance. Add more, or make this an earlier feature.

Overall,

- Up the base AC, but put a limit on Tougher Plating, at least.

- Give more options for Fighting Styles and Upgraded Armor and better options for pre-existing Combat Modules.

- Let em use martial weapons.

- Safekeeping should either be stronger or sooner.

Everything you got is pretty solid, some of it just needs a little tinkering though. I hope you keep working on this.--SwankyPants (talk) 11:22, 19 May 2020 (MDT)

Hello SwankyPants, I will go over your points one by one. Thank you in advance for your honest and constructive Feedback!

Weapon Proficiencies - I chose simple weapons since martial weapons just do not fit the scheme of a crafty little humanoid making their own weapons. I can't imagine a gnome jumping out its broken mech and fighting with a two-handed greatsword.

The Mech - The AC is quite low, I know that. Maybe I will push it up to 15. While playtesting, I experienced, that 2d6+int+con is a LOT of 1st level HP. More than a Barbarian could ever dream of. Yes, this fragile thing breaks almost instantly, which can be quite annoying, but especially at early levels, the Mech Pilot itself is quite a strong fighter with its crossbow. You also get proficiency on Dex saves, which really does a lot for you and your mech. So I am a little hesitant of raising the starting AC. Otherwise it might just be broken. (I fixed the attack modifier, thanks!)

Combat/Utility Modules - You are definetely right about the missing "level ups" for other modules. I have to think about that. The proficiencies are meant to help outside combat, otherwise you are useful in your mech only. Since Bard and Rogue just get proficiencies via Expertise, I thought that this couldn't do too much harm.

Fighting Style - I thought of changing the "Upgraded Armor" to a fighting style. So it would be possible to take more than one. I will have to think about new fighting styles and more ways to make different approaches to the class possible.

Headlights/Ejection Seat - The headlights are just a gimmick, since a utility module will probably have more impact. But the "light"- spell can be useful sometimes and these lights are hopefully cooler than normal torches. I'll think of an ejection height, thanks, I completely overlooked that!

AC Upgrades - Yea, the AC really is a problem. I have to figure something out... I do not think, that a limit to Armor Upgrades is needed. Yes, you could take each AC upgrade ever and have a comfortable +15 to your AC at lvl 20, but your mech will do basically nothing then.

Safekeeping - What if you and your mech could each have a resistance to a damage type? So you could be resistant to psychic damage and your mech to fire or something like that?

As I said earlier, I do not have a lot of time on my hands right now, but I will have a look in here frequently! If you have ideas, you are welcome to post them here!

Thanks again for all these tips, I am sure they will help me correct these flaws!

--Shorty181 (talk) 14:32, 24 May 2020 (MDT)

Hey, I think I messed something up here. While, yeah, the gnome hopping out with a greatsword does sound rather dumb, I'm thinking more of the mech here. I might be getting something wrong, as it does say you can replace the Mech's weapons at any time, it doesn't exactly make you proficient with them, if I'm reading right. Essentially, it cuts you off from a lot of weapons you might want, IE, anything with a damage die above a d8.

Maybe adding something along the lines of "You can equip your Mech with any weapon. While in the Mech, any weapon it is holding, you are considered proficient in, and you instead use your Dexterity modifier for attack and damage roles", unless having them use clubs and spears and stuff was the idea, I might be missing something.

Also, if I can think of anything to add to the pre-existing combat modules that aren't missile, I'll be sure to toss it here.--SwankyPants (talk) 15:42, 24 May 2020 (MDT)

Since the primary weapons of the mech do basically anything you want, I am not sure, whether this is needed. If you want your mech to carry a spear for example, I don't really see you being proficient with that (You control a heavy mech-arm, carrying a spear in its hand. Good luck hitting anything with that :D). The other problems you listed are probably more pressing than this anyways.

Thanks again for your reply!

--Shorty181 (talk) 8:00 25 May 2020 (MDT)

Artificer Subclass

So... there is a Subclass to the Artificer, called "Armorer", which I absoloutely love. However, I am a bit sad that my work has been made quite obsolete. --Shorty181 (talk) 10:25, 18 July 2020 (MDT)

Rework to make not-obsolete

I have a Google Doc version of this class that's been completely re-done and rebalanced, with more options and more flavor. The mech itself is transformed into more of a vehicles, with one of the subclasses returning to the personal suit concept. A great deal of what was originally here was cut off and reformed into new features and modules, and additional features were added to help make the class overall more interesting and playable. Some numbers were drastically reduced, especially hit points, because the current version of this class can out-tank a barbarian while stealing a good deal of damage. So what do you think? IntellectMaster (talk) 15:29, 23 December 2020 (MST)

I personally have seen this variant(which you should probably link here if you want people on board with making massive changes!), and believe that should stay how it is, a variant. While this class itself is in a semi-rough state, I don't agree that a lot of the pre-existing and functional mechanics should go to waste. This certainly does open up to more problems, as far as I'm aware no one is currently working on this class, so now we have a playable version and a non-playable version.

In the past, I have worked on a variant for a class on the wiki, which is not on here currently for a number of reasons(never start making homebrew with the big stuff, kids). The original class in it's current state is derivative, or is at least meant to be, and is also an unfinished/unpolished mess. While that page does exist, and I have a perfectly functional variant, I don't believe mine should take precedent over the original, as it deviated heavily enough for me to consider making it something else on it's own. In my opinion, this mech pilot variant should remain a variant, as the mechanics, while not completely different, vary heavily enough to be it's own thing. --SwankyPants (talk) 15:43, 23 December 2020 (MST)

I only even considered the idea of editing this specific class page after I saw the creator's note lamenting the existence of the Armorer Artificer. Hence the name of this section! :D

Anyways, you're right, I should link it. Here we go: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gVH_Y3VVGoHLHOYRtvXpEsHUQcB1j6HpkYc1d5r8W80/edit?usp=sharing IntellectMaster (talk) 08:33, 24 December 2020 (MST)

Thank you all for your help, since I am working on the Gambler right now, I kind of neglected the Mech Pilot. If you want to, you can absolutely change my approach to the mech, since I am not happy with the way it currently is. This is an open forum, so I invite you to improve on things, if you want to! I like the linked version a little more, mainly because it more readable to me. If you want to, you can change my initial version as much as you want!

--Shorty181 (talk) 10:08 29. January 2021 (MDT)

Hello, it's me.

Since I don't know too much about the Mech Pilot's current iteration, I would like to know why the module, allowing you to call your mech, was cut. It seemed like a nice way to implement a unique feature to the class.

Thank you for answering!

--Shorty181 (talk) 11:38, 29 April 2021 (MDT)--Shorty181 (talk) 11:38, 29 April 2021 (MDT)

Ah, yes, that module. With the old, Iron Man-like version of the class, it made more sense as the extremely high-tech body suit it was before. The massive revision changed the core class into something more akin to the very first suit Tony Stark made in the first Marvel film instead of the iconic suit he was known for, and relegated the original concept to a subclass. In the process, the revision downgraded the overall technological level of the class to something closer to what you think of with artificers and steampunk rather than futuristic AI technology, melding magic and technology to reproduce those high-tech sensations without actually being high tech. With that in mind, I didn't think that specific module fit the theme as well. However, the class itself is very easily reskinned to a more high-tech setting with that kind of stuff, and similarly high-tech modules with more advanced effects (or at least more techy descriptions) would make more sense. For example, the flamethrower and missile modules were changed to the more generic "fire cone" and "fire blasts", the headlights are flavored specifically as bullseye lanterns instead of feeling like car headlights, and the observation and heartbeat monitor modules were described using similarly low-tech systems of instruments to produce the desired effect. These changes help the class feel more playable in lower-tech settings like Eberron and with artificers.

I ended up working with several of my IRL friends (who don't have their user pages on this website, so I can't credit them that way) on several of the implemented modules, and the ability to call to your mech from any distance and have it automatically attempt to get to you was one that we decided didn't work for the reskin. Funny, but not in a good, balanced way, especially without any lore reason for it to even be possible. I even get the feeling they're skeptical about the remote control found in the Machine Mech's 20th-level feature, so that should say something about the feasibility of an infinite-distance voice-activated "come to my location" command. Plus, ideally you'll always be no further than 5 feet from your mech anyways, so summoning it like Iron Man and his army of Jarvis-controlled suit clones isn't even necessary. (Which, on that note, we decided that mind control shouldn't be on the list of possible modules. Didn't fit the theme of the class, before or after the revision, and was too powerful anyways, even for 20th-level. A great many more utility modules were also scrapped for the same reason: not fitting the new theme. But I hope the replacement modules are good fits, and the old ones can always be re-added as a high-tech variants.) --IntellectMaster (talk) 14:40, 29 April 2021 (MDT)

Thank you for your rework, by the way. You absolutely described and solved the problem of this class not feeling like DnD, so thank you for that! I absolutely understand why you removed/reworked a lot of modules, which absolutely made sense, since I wasn't happy with my version of the class. The remote-control-feature seems a little off for me too. How about the ability to telepathically connect to your mech, allowing it to respond to single-word commands such as the spell "command"? It could be "upgraded" by gaining more range, being able to penetrate barriers and at lvl 20 connect over planes of existance, allowing your mech to teleport to you within a limited time.

This is just an idea, alternatively, you could teach a familiar to pilot the mech and walk it to you or similar. I like the changes overall and hope you keep up the good work!

--Shorty181 (talk) 07:12, 5 May 2021 (MDT)

Addressing issues I saw.

I added a lot of weapon proficiencies, your mech can finally use a sword! I also changed its AC calculation to be: 10 + the mech's Strength Modifier + it's Constitution Modifier. To balance these, I lowered the hit dice to a d4. If you think these are detrimental, please say so. --Travelling Writer (talk) 17:00, 27 March 2023 (MDT)