Talk:Lamia, Variant (5e Race)

Would love input for balancing purposes for this race if any one views parts of it as possible issues.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dontaru (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

Looking over it, I mostly just cleaned up some formatting and grammar without changing the effect of anything. I have a few recommendations, however:

• The various features pooled into "Snake-like" would make more sense if they were split into several different racial traits. Much of the description therein, specifically regarding shedding, would be better as part of a description of the race than a racial trait. (Aside from that, does she shed the "human" skin from her upper body too..?)
• In the Medusa subrace, I feel like "(If the Medusa is attempting to see something more clearly and is rolling a perception roll for sight nearby creatures may be affected by her accidental glare unless specifically avoiding looking like she is glaring.)" should be omitted. It's clunky in terms of actually playing the game, and considering it even vaguely specifies "may" with no definition of how often, it is the sort of thing that should be left up to DM discretion instead of listed as a racial trait.
• There are very minor trait differences between the subraces of Sea Serpent and Jormungand. Despite this, the later gains a whopping +3 to Strength (a modifier higher than any official race), and even has a faster base walking speed. A player would be shafted in choosing a Sea Serpent over a Jormungand, even if the campaign was entirely aquatic as seems to be the point of the Sea Serpent.
• Medusa's "1d4 rounds" is abnormal for 5e, and it doesn't specify if it ends at the beginning or end of a turn. It would be more fitting to last 1 minute, and afford the target a new saving throw at the end of each of its turns to end the effect prematurely.
• In regards to Snake Body, 5e doesn't have a "free action."
• In regards to being Large size, I think it might be simpler to state, "Your size is Large, and you occupy the space of a Large creature, but you wield weapons as if your size was Medium. As a Large creature, require four times the amount of food and water as a Medium creature, and have double carrying capacity."
• Nothing is specified for alignment.
• Do you realize the weight modifier is intended to be multiplied by the height modifier's inches? As it stands, the random height/weight could produce a 22' lamia weighing 340 lbs to a 32' lamia weighing over 4000 lbs. One can assume the height is supposed to be more equivalent to length, but even so, a Large creature only occupies a 10 x 10 foot square. This sounds more like a Huge creature to me, at least.

There's also a few grammatical errors throughout, some of which I fixed, but I assume you already knew about that. - Guy (talk) 19:05, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Finals week atm so I will look over these some time probably next week Dontaru (talk) 03:11, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Made edits to account for some of the things mentioned here. I guess best reasoning for not making it a huge creature with that length is part of it is upright instead of full length stretched out normally and the possible benefits of a huge creature. how ever the clarifications were made cause it is no bigger around than a normal medium sized creature and can easily coil up to fit in the same sized square as a medium creature(accounting for this by not allowing the benefit of large weapons that a large creature would normally use). I go back and split up the info for snake like at some point soon. Dontaru (talk) 07:14, 8 May 2017 (UTC) Ps I messed up how I was doing weight mods previously. don't remember exactly what I was doing that messed that up so much before Dontaru (talk) 07:16, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Rebalancing/Redoing entirely

Since it seems that the assumed original author (dontaru) has not made any changes the page in several years I have taken it upon myself to try and balance and sort out the problems with this race (seeing as its something I would like available in my games). I'm still continuing to make adaptions and maybe possibly re-write all the subraces and base abilities to further equal out balancing & make them more interesting options. Considering rolling much/all of the common lamia traits into the base (Possibly drop advantage on grapples)and adding a standard bite/constrict type attacks as natural weapons. Removal of Keen Sense (smell) and Snake-Like or rolling into other traits. (Jesari (talk) 13:32, 21 February 2021 (MST)

As is, the race seems to be in a pretty okay state? Sure, the normal subrace could use some work, but otherwise it's pretty solid. I doubt it'll take much more change otherwise. --SwankyPants (talk) 13:38, 21 February 2021 (MST)

Yes the other edits in the past week or so have been me before I made an account, trying to tone down things like large size, having swim and climb speeds base (climb speed in particular is very strong, even if its not spider climb), trying to add/fill out fluff a bit more and make things more distinct. Personally feel it could use some changes still & potentially formatting. Jesari (talk) 14:00, 21 February 2021 (MST)

Well, I assumed correctly then. As I said before, no real glaring issues with most stuff, including the format. I respect the work you've put into this, I'd just try to avoid being too overzealous with the changes, y'know? --SwankyPants (talk) 14:06, 21 February 2021 (MST)

To be fair, some pages need a zealous rework. I think the work done on this page so far is admirable, and has brought it much closer to a balanced state. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 14:21, 21 February 2021 (MST)

I understand that, and this page kinda did, but removing more traits might just be an unnessecary nerf since it's already been through so many. --SwankyPants (talk) 14:23, 21 February 2021 (MST)

If that is a concern, you can measure out each subrace's general power level using one of the various meters found on the wiki, such as Marasmusine Meter (5e Guideline). If changes are found to be going too far in the other direction, feel free to suggest a buff. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 14:27, 21 February 2021 (MST)

I've been using the BP (build point) guide in https://www.dmsguild.com/product/230312/Monstrous-Races as a ruler. Most player races by that fall between 8-10 BP, a few going as high as 12. Atm the Lamia, base, falls at about 8 BP so it could even be slightly buffed. Jesari (talk) 18:29, 21 February 2021 (MST)

Updated the page, fleshed out a bit more on subraces, redid abilities entirely, and attempted to follow a formatting similar to official WoTC material. Should fall at about 10 BP on the scale in the Monstrous Races book regardless of the sub race picked. Jesari (talk) 22:59, 21 February 2021 (MST)