Talk:Juggernaut (5e Race)

I understand this race may be unbalanced. This is a feature, not a mistake. Consider this when asking about balance. I'm happy to fix any errors, but the intrinsic abilities should remain mostly unchanged.--Thetrue1 (talk) 11:56, 30 March 2023 (MDT)

I don't think pages that are intrinsically designed to be unbalanced really belong on the wiki. I'm tagging this regardless. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:12, 30 March 2023 (MDT)

I'm not sure what you mean by ASI, but I removed what may have been the issue at the very least. The "cause for concern" part is something that I, as a person, don't understand but as a player can. If you see anything else you don't like, feel free to change it yourself. As for the innate heavy armor, the name of the race gives the reason for how high it is. The race is meant to be naturally durable and not easy to injure. I have some things to add - the maximum AC, for instance, can only scale up to 25, with the ability "Natural Armor," though since I have it set at 16 base it's highly unlikely this will happen. Items may be able to boost this, but that is entirely up to the DM in most cases. Plus, since the race can't use any armor, I think that balances it a bit more. --Thetrue1 (talk) 12:44, 30 March 2023 (MDT)

Ability score increases(ASI) are typically limited to +3 in total from races(+2/+1 to different scores), and as is, +5(+3/+2) is like getting an extra ability score increase from a class.

When it comes to the 16 + Proficiency bonus AC, things get a bit ridiculous. Ignoring that the highest possible AC granted from this is 22, and that the limitation means nothing, there's still major issues with this, namely who gets it. The race I assume you're basing this off of, the original UA Warforged, had different levels of armor based on proficiencies with armor, so a wizard couldn't get free plate armor, solving half of the problems a wizard has. This, however, is not the case here. Setting aside that it scales further and past magical armor, this is terrible for balancing. --SwankyPants (talk) 14:56, 30 March 2023 (MDT)

The race isn't meant for wizards. If someone wants to use it for a wizard, they can go right ahead and do that, but this race is made for tankier builds. I built this for normal fighters and barbarians, not wizards, sorcerers, warlocks, and bards or any homebrew variants of those four classes. It isn't my job to see if it synergizes with anything else, because it's not supposed to synergise with everything else - and that's why I had the ASI like it was. I can fix the magical armor aspect, but the race already can't use armor, so I don't see why that's a consideration here. I promise I'm not trying to be rude here, by the way. If the armor scaling is still in issue despite my reasons, how do you suggest I fix it? --Thetrue1 (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2023 (MDT)

It's not that it's not made for it, but if it can be abused, balancing assumes that it will. If munchkin players weren't around, that wouldn't be a problem. As it stands, if you really don't want them using other armor, you'd probably be better off just using the Tortle's natural armor trait. Similar effect, less extreme. --SwankyPants (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2023 (MDT)

True I suppose. I haven't had any experiences yet with players abusing the abilities of a race, but I changed a bit of it. Here's what I did to try and balance it:

Natural Armor. Your ac is equal to 14 + your constitution modifier, but other creatures have advantage on Perception checks to detect you that involve hearing or sight.

Broad Frame. Due to your large frame, you cannot wear armor, as it is not designed for you. Shields still apply a bonus to ac, but the bonus is half. Magical armor cannot be worn by you (as it is still armor) and items cannot raise your ac above 25. Spells that raise ac get disadvantage when targeting you.

As suggested, I used the Tortle shell ability to determine the AC, and fixed what I think you meant by being able to use magical armor. Items can be used (only up to a point) and spells get disadavantage when trying to raise AC, but don't just not work at all. I think that's a fair thing to do, as it allows the players to have fun while still saving the DM a massive headache of nothing being able to touch the player. --Thetrue1 (talk) 16:44, 30 March 2023 (MDT)

Are those changes okay? Could any mod let me know please? --Thetrue1 (talk) 15:38, 1 April 2023 (MDT)

I'm going to assume the mods have found no further issues with the page, and that I have balanced this reasonably well. --Thetrue1 (talk) 19:14, 3 April 2023 (MDT)

Proficiencies

"You are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. Treat any weapon with the Finesse ability as though it didn't have Finesse. Instead of using Dexterity for proficiency, you may use Strength (Only when determining proficiency with weapons and shields)."

I feel like this could be worded a lot better... It's also very powerful since it's proficiency in pretty much all weapons due to 5e's simplified weapon system.

From what I am understanding, this is a sizeable trait with 3 effects? Treating any weapon with finesse property as if it doesn't have it is supposed to limit it to str, I assume. And using only strength for proficiency instead of dexterity... is that to say you can just use str to add to any ranged weapon, since you're proficient in all of them? It's a lot.

Overall, this race feels more like a specified role of player than something that is open to all adventurers. It is like an enemy, actually, and especially with the self-destruct option down there.--Yanied (talk) 12:55, 16 January 2024 (MST)