Talk:Boon of High Mysticism (5e Epic Boon)

Candidate for Deletion Discussion

So the CfD template has the statement:

“

Boons should be useable by multiple classes.

”

It's worth noting that there are a number of homemade psionic classes that get 71+ psi points by 20th level, so the statement's recommendation is met. —Sledged (talk) 18:49, 9 November 2021 (MST)

There aren't. I just checked. Just adding in psi points doesn't seem enough to be an epic boon anyway. I didn't even find one psionic class with 71 psi points at all. --Lavie (talk) 19:04, 9 November 2021 (MST)

Aside from WotC's UA Mystic (which admittedly is the target class for this boon), there is a mystic variant, the Psycher (5e Class) and the Psion, Discipline Variant (5e Class).

As far as it only adding psi points, its purpose for psionic classes is the same as the Boon of High Magic's (DMG, page 323) purpose for spellcasters. I figured 13 more psi points were on par with another 9th-level spell slot. —Sledged (talk) 19:47, 9 November 2021 (MST)

Edits without Consent

Lavie, when you expressed that there were no classes that could benefit from this boon, I gave examples otherwise. When you followed up that the benefit wasn't worthy of being a boon, I, in response, compared it to another boon I considered analogous. When you then edited the page removing the prerequisite with the comment "Boons do not have prerequisites," I then edited the page putting the the prereq back in with the comment "Some boons have prerequisites. Examples include High Magic, Quick Casting, Spell Master, and Spell Recall (DMG page 232)." And now you have again removed the prereq.

I see your latest edit as vandalism. Admittedly, this is my opinion, and you may disagree, but what not opinion is that you've changed someone else's work not only without the author's (mine) consent, but in direct opposition to the author's desires and intent. I'm going to revert it back, and I'll ask you not to change it again so long as I'm actively insisting it remain as is. I've read your arguments and considered your position, provided counter arguments (in a couple of cases proving your statements false), and I'm not compelled to change the boon. If feel so differently that you're compelled to make changes, you're welcome to create your own boon to match how you feel it should work.

To your latest edit comment of "Limiting it to those with 71 psi points negates a lot of psionic classes that don't reach 71 psi points. And only classes with psi points specifically benefit from this." I refer again to the Boon of High Magic (DMG page 232) and note that the precident is set in that it limits itself to those with 9th-level spell slots which negates spell-casting classes that don't reach 9th-level spell slots. And only classes with spell slots specifically benefit from this. —Sledged (talk) 12:09, 10 November 2021 (MST)

If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here. That is what is below the edit summary every time you go to edit something. Besides, I found only the Mystic, 2nd Variant class to have 71+ psi points by that level. There are, officially, 5 classes that can benefit from the boon of high mysticism. As for the others, only the barbarian cannot benefit from any of them, with the monk benefiting from only the boon of quick casting. Having this boon limited to only those with 71+ psi points has it to where only 2 unofficial classes can benefit from it. --Lavie (talk) 12:57, 10 November 2021 (MST)

Lavie. While I do understand why you may want the boon to have no prerequisites, they is a precedent for boons having such prerequisites. In addition, you have ignored the original author's comments and spirit and intent. As per Help:Spirit and Intent while every page does say "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here." it DOES NOT say,

"Ignore the ideas, values, beliefs, and opinions of your fellow editors at a whim." (If this is your desire, please review our Help:Behavioral Policy)

Perhaps a slightly lower prerequisite could be arranged where the boon would stil require pretty significant investment into the mystic or other classes with psi points. Regardless, even if the boon only worked with the mystic, it would be fine as is because homebrew should be based on whether it can be used by official Wotc content, not other homebrew.--Blobby383b (talk) 13:21, 10 November 2021 (MST)

Yeah, a lower prerequisite, such as a minimum of 64 psi points would be fine and better wording as well. Also, is UA official WotC content? Genuinely asking. --Lavie (talk) 13:34, 10 November 2021 (MST)

UA is produced by WoTC so it is in fact, technically official. It is just considered more imbalanced, like official brew. At least, that is how my players and I defined it in the end. So when we play a game saying "official" content, UA is included and free estate.--Yanied (talk) 13:39, 10 November 2021 (MST)

I agree with Yanied, but I do want to say UA is a bit odd due to being test content. Only the newest version of a subclass, race, ect. is relevant so old UA's of stuff that has been published is defunct. For stuff that hasn't been published, UA it is the definitive version of content, for better or worse. As to whether UA can be considered official WotC content is a bit vague, but regardless the wiki seems to support UA regardless of whether the content gets printed(Mystic subclasses, prestige classes, races copying UA double creature types, ect.).--Blobby383b (talk) 13:55, 10 November 2021 (MST)

UA is a good place to find experimental wording and stuff, even if defunct (passed over for publishing). Just don't refer to it too much for balance! :) (cough, lore master) --Yanied (talk) 14:05, 10 November 2021 (MST)

I initially considered lowering the prereq to 64. As I have previously mentioned, this boon was targeted for the Mystic, and as my earlier comments have suggested, it's patterned after and balanced against the Boon of High Magic. Consequently, I rejected the lower prereq because High Magic requires at least 17 levels of the spellcasting class feature to get 9th-level slots. Having High Mysticism's prereq at 71 requires 18 levels of the psionics class feature, but lowering it to 64, would require only 10 levels, which felt too low in comparison. Not sure what is meant about the wording because I tried to keep it consistent with the wording of High Magic where applicable and sensible.

On the question of whether UA material is official or not, it's worth noting that the last paragraph of the "This Is Playtest Material" section of the PDF says, "If we decide to make this material official..." To me this implies that it's not yet official. —Sledged (talk) 16:09, 10 November 2021 (MST)

Oh that's pretty neat. I'll have to bring that up next time at the table. I guess that the difference is actually "made by WoTC" and "not made by them."--Yanied (talk) 16:24, 10 November 2021 (MST)