Talk:Astartes (5e Class)

Redundance?

Wouldn't a fighter represent this well enough? All weapon proficiencies, healing factor(second wind), physical enhancements(action surge, indomitable), and the subclasses fit into most archetypes, Champion/Battle Master for veterans/champions, EK for librarians, maybe Cavalier for bikers, and homebrew subclasses could cover any other archetype well enough. Seems pointless. --SwankyPants (talk) 21:22, 21 January 2021 (MST)

For specializations

It's meant to be a better baseline than just fighter it's gonna be a long project but the idea is to get the legions in and chapters of extreme note such as a thousands sons subclass or for word bearers and so on so forth cause there some nuances that don't get covered with just fighter but I see what you mean I'll make a few subclasses to see if I can just use fighter and I'll go from there

Yeah, just make sure to use the WIP tag if you are going to spend a lot of time on it. That way when a lot of stuff gets deleted, others know it'll be replaced. Lavie (talk) 15:19, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns.

Well, since it’s been untagged, I figure I can give my thoughts on it, starting with some general concerns.

• Awkward wording shows up a lot here. While not always directly harmful, it doesn’t help for reading.
• Class features that grant items are kinda bad, since you can just as easily lose these items, turning the level you got it from into a dead one. It can work, but when it simply just gives you an item, that’s when it’s prone to failure.

That’s the general issues I have with the class, but there’s a good few more specific things.

• The Fighting Styles might be a bit too strong, since you get 4/7. I’d think even most of the big dudes(chapter masters, champions, veterans, y’know) would only ever have like 1 or 2 sorta specialisms, 3 at best. Could benefit from lowering the amount you get.
• Carry a Big Gun would have some weird interactions with Heavy Bolters, but it kinda makes enough sense. I’m not sure if would replace/change it, but you could?
• Extra Attack should probably only be 2 or 3. These dudes get a lot more than a fighter does.
• Got your Back and Hold Fast are a bit strange. Kinda makes sense for some chapters, not so much others.
• Promotions(why?) kinda makes sense, since higher levels in this class would probably represent leadership roles better. Bonus is a little weird but it works.
• Emperor’s Fury is eeehhhhhhhh. Aside from the advantage on all attacks being ridiculous, it just kinda feels weird. I know it’s from the Space Marine game, and it probably shouldn’t, but it feels like a really weird level to gain something between a barbarian rage and a paladin capstone.
• See Promotions for my thoughts on Champion of Humanity.
• Rapid Deployment kinda sucks. Sure, it’s a dash, but unless you have the weird rage/capstone on then probably all of your attacks miss.
• Brothers in Arms is pretty alright too. Advantage on attacks for everyone else is a lot, but that can always be tweaked slightly.
• Angel of Death works a bit weird and probably should just be replaced by Brothers in Arms.

And for subclasses:

• General
  • Different subclasses scale differently. Some improve earlier on, others have features that don’t scale ever, and other jankyness. They should all probably be brought inline with each other.
  • Features that you’d presumably pick up a subclass for come at later levels, from 6th to 10th. Features should be moved.
• Assault
  • See general thoughts for my opinion of Skies the Limit.
  • Crashing Faith works kinda. Still weird, because of jump pack reliance, but it’s fine?
  • CQC-Doctrine gives you a feat, which is a big no-no for class design. I’d definetly change that one, or at least give them a similar bonus without strictly just saying “you get this”.
  • Screamin’ Eagles is an interesting concept, weird because of jump pack reliance.
  • Angel’s Wings would be an alright feature(improving previous features to make them more relevant later on), but still relies on the jump pack. Again, doesn’t fit most chapters that would probably use this.
• Devastator
  • Having a feature that basically just gives you an Ammo belt seems weird as all hell.
  • Covering Fire is pretty okay, honestly. Written weird and gained probably one feature too late, but it works. Might be odd for some heavy weapons(lascannons, rocket launchers, big plasma guns), but it works.
  • The Mighty Bulwark and Surpressing Fire are also kinda fine, maybe less so since supressing fire completely blocks movement in an area.
  • Heavy Weapons Guy seems too late for what’s basically a fighting style as a capstone.
• Chaplain
  • See earlier critiques for what I think of Badge of Office.
  • Boolin’ granting three skills/potentially three expertise is a little strange since no other subclass seems to grant this kind of utility.
  • SMWPFFAYMK is a little odd, but it makes some sense. Not strictly very chaplain-esc but eh. Also the instrument proficiencies are very unneeded.
  • FIMS works well enough. Could be a multi-target thing but single target is fine.
  • Last feature works well enough(granting a bonus to an earlier feature), even if I don’t really agree with what feature it improves. Also, round counting, very bad.
• Scout
  • The first feature now might be redundant, if you picked up the wrong things.
  • Blinding Flash, Tools for the Job, and Never Saw it Coming all fall for the same issue I’ve highlighted a few times now.
  • I’ve Seen This Before is fine. The mechanics don’t do what it’s supposed to do, and could use a little rewrite.
• Librarian
  • Doesn’t actually give them spellcasting. Oopsies.
  • Apprentice Librarian gives you two feats. See my thoughts on CQC-Doctrine but double the issues. Also, remember to link things if they’re on the wiki. Pretty sure one of those is homebrew.
  • TET is fine. Little weird, but fine.
  • Psychic Smite is less weird. It would probably deal force damage(psykers don’t exclusively pop brains), but it’s okay as is.
  • Telekinetic Barrier is stupid strong, may need a reduction. Also, all these features that eat your already limited spell slots are odd.
  • Chief Librarian is probably the worst offender for the “item features” I’ve mentioned. I assume you can guess why.

Overall, there’s a lot of issues with the class. I’ve got a few ideas on how to fix them, but I’m not posting them this second, I do have other things to do. Let me know if you’re interested, but I’m probably gonna post ‘em anyways in due time. --SwankyPants (talk) 11:10, 2 April 2021 (MDT)

I'm willing to see what you got mate - brostodes

Alright then, I’ll see what I can try to remember.

• Reduce, reuse, and/or move some of the class features, not subclass features. Things like Emperor’s Fury(function is akin to rage, a core feature of the barbarian) should likely come earlier, where features like Rapid Deployment aren’t necessary for every space marine, kinda similar with Carry a Big Gun. Kinda unsure on this idea. Could potentially trim the leadership features too, so you don’t have to make your allies track a bunch of extra stuff, maybe just 2-3 bonuses.
• Reduce fighting styles gained to 2, and bring back the fighting style+ feature, if in a slightly different form. That level of mastery is certainly representative, and it just kinda disappeared out of nowhere.
• Change the subclasses to better represent certain archetypes of marines(fast attack, strong gunline, physical bulwark, stealth expert, big guns), instead of specific unit types. Instead of strictly following the types, as it is now, it would afford much more leniency with what each thing represents(fast attack could be assault, bladeguard veterans, melee terminators, those sorts). While it wouldn’t work for every type, like chaplains/librarians/techmarines/apocetharies, it could maybe provide much more flexibility. I’d personally recommend basing some of this material on the killteam specialists. Kinda works here too, being an individual with unique abilities.
• Do something with those dead levels(7th, 9th, 11th, 15th, 17th). Perhaps feature improvements?

I can go into more specifics on these ideas with time, but those were just some of my general thoughts on what you could do with it. --SwankyPants (talk) 20:16, 6 April 2021 (MDT)

ON IT work begins now you're welcome to join and input comments -brostodes