Talk:Vatireans (4e Race)

Delete

I concur with Green Dragon -- Sepsis 13:20, 28 May 2009 (MDT)

I back Sepis --Storm Elf5 18:56, 6 July 2009 (MDT)

A Few Things

• Ability Scores: In 4e races get +2 to only two seperate stats.-done
• Speed: 8 is above the normal speed you would find on any race. At best a 6 with maybe a trait that allows a quick boost of speed once or twice during an encounter.-done
• Vision: All types of vision??? This is way overpowered, races should get 1 or 2 types at best.-done
• Languages: I would suggest dropping the "racial language", unless a variety of races speak this new language it becomes useless to most characters playing them. If they have to have their own unique language, you can always just fluff that (since it only matters when dealing within their own race) and give them a language they will get use out of.-done
• Skill Bonuses: Where are they?-made
• Soul Claim: This power is incomplete and confusing.-fixed
• Favored Classes: What are "the tracker and warrior classes"? For this field you want to stick to core classes (ones you know most DMs allow). Don't make them a goto race for a HB class, if you do you really start narrowing the audience for this race.-changed
• Fluff: Unique races require tons of fluff. Remember we have no previous lore to draw on, so you have to tell us as much as you can. Fluff is what really sells a race, and makes them stick out, so don't skimp on it.

Thank you for your time. -- Sepsis 13:49, 29 May 2009 (MDT)-fine

Sep, Elves do have a speed of 7, if you look. Just a note. --Absconder 21:24, 2 September 2009 (MDT)

Will be quit not signing their posts properrly, it's annoying. ShadowyFigure 08:19, 2 June 2009 (MDT) (also known as ShadowyFigure... the Shadowy Figure)

Guys please respond I'm confused about why my race is still posted for deletion I and absconder fixed it. -True Warrior 09:47, 2 June 2009 (MST)

Green Dragon, i understand the fact that i can talk to you guys here but still absconder and i fixed the Vatireans to meet your recomendations,unless we both missed something,witch i dont think we did, the Vatireans are now not over powered and are about the same as elves or eladrin(minus the fact that they have to feed on the souls of others)and both those races are allowed so thats why im frusterated.i add one new race and do a bad job just because i just started playing D&D 4 weeks ago my only race that i ever made gets preposed for deleton,intead of just contacting me and asking me why my race was "oveerpowered" you guys just go and post that notice and then one morning i log on and see "this 4e race has been preposed for deletion". that is why im mad,and the Vatireans arent overpowered anyway, so what if there really strong?they couldent use magic or weopons originoly. but now i down graded them to basicly a friggin elf with soul-divouring issues.so please understand were im comeing from here i mean werent you guys ever new at this kind of stuff???well any way i now you guys dont really care but come on there is a reason absconder backed me up right? other than the fact that hes my friend.plus he put the 4e race Underwourld Elves on and I am the one who originoly thougt up and made them.please contct me or Absconder with any info pertaining to the Vatireans.

plus to let you guys now in advance i wont have acsess to a computer all the time over the summer so please be patient. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by True warrior (talk • contribs) 09:06, 3 June 2009 (MST). Please sign your posts.

First, please make a better effort to keep your spelling and grammar in order. It adds to your credibility, which will in turn make people more likely to take you seriously and give feedback. Second, sign your posts using four tildes (~), please. Finally, regarding your race: it doesn't have all the same problems that it once did, but it still has a long way to go. Look at this race as an example, or this one, or this one. You have yet to define your race's soul-devouring ability and the flavor text is very minimal. Until you clarify exactly what Soul Claim does, fix your spelling and grammar, and add more flavor text, your article should continue to carry the delete tag. Once you have enough information for it to be playable, then it can be changed. Also, your claim that the race is immortal doesn't go very well with conventional rules. You should expand on what that is intended to mean. Also, keep in mind that being proposed for deletion doesn't necessarily mean your article is in immediate danger of being deleted. Articles that are tagged usually aren't deleted for at least a few weeks, as far as I know, during which time you can improve your article. If an admin sees progress, chances are the article's execution will be stayed. So, my advice to you is to first and foremost define Soul Claim, as then your race could be playable and merely become a 'stub' or 'unbalanced.' From there you can work on flavor and spelling/grammar. -- Jota 13:35, 3 June 2009 (MDT)

Thank you , sorry about my spelling and gramer. at the time when my last post was made I had to write fast so I didint pay atention to spelling or grammer.But thanks for helping . But like I said give me some extra time to fix the vatireans since I dont have constant computer acsess.

I looked at the races that you sugested and they are all well created I agree with you on that but I still dont understand how I can define soul claim, please help me by giveing me sugestions, or better yet edit it so I dont have to worry about my race being up to par.Please.

Plus what did you mean when you said 'sign your posts useing four tidles' I dont understand you mean. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by True warrior (talk • contribs) 09:07, 15 June 2009 (MST). Please sign your posts.

1. I don't know jackshit about 4e, so you're sort of on your own, at least from my angle.
2. Defining Soul Claim: tell us what it does. Ooh, I claim your soul! As in Trap the soul? As in what? Death knell? What does it do in terms of game mechanics? Quantifiable effects, numbers, if you will.
3. Regarding signatures: write what you are going to to write, and then type, verbatim, without the quotation marks, "-- ~~~~", which the wiki will automatically translate into your signature (True warrior), complete with a time stamp. -- Jota 22:48, 15 June 2009 (MDT)

Well it dosent 'trap' the minions soul and it dosent death knell it,it consumes it.As in takeing it and useing it to heal yourself,but not giveing it back the soul is gone.It will not return to the creature,it is gone destroyed.It basicly destroys the creatures esence,meaning no after life.I agree that it is a very savage atack but thats how the Vatireans survive.true warrior 8:43 16 June 2009

THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH for takeing the delete tab off of my race!!! what did I do right!? -true warrior 8:51 June 16 2009

PLus guys i was on my acount at the time that absconder signed the statment that was from my acount,because he was sitting next to me when i loged on and he saw your coments and desided to responed useing my computer that is why its signed Absconder but was posted by my acount.If any of that makes sense let me know. -true warrior 8:58 16 june 2009

This race has no special abilities! --Aboleth11 14:43, 10 July 2009 (MDT)

Finally! I pointed that out below, and was wondering how long it would take someone to notice the absence of racial traits. --  Sam Kay   talk    contribs    email   05:27, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

I guess I have a few "fluff" questions; you say "Vatireans are imortal in the meaning that they live as long as Elves and Eladrin", does this mean "not immortal at all" as both Elves and Eladrin are long-lived...but not "immortal". Also from reading the sample adventurers I get the feeling this race likes to live apart from each other as well as other races. I may be getting that wrong, but I guess thats why it may need some clarification. Lastly you make it sound as if they must feed on souls (like a Vampire does blood)....given their reclusive arctic surroundings it seems like this would be very difficult to do. Not to mention they would be branded "evil" by virtually every other sentient race that encountered them. Your fluff should allow from them to drain souls in order to heal themselves...but not require them to eat souls to survive. Now of course that just my opinion, but I think you can see my train of thought. -- Sepsis 11:19, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

Now I have a question concerning the Skill Bonuses. I'm not sure why you picked Arcana and Stealth. You can sorta see Stealth with this race...but nothing in their fluff points toward Arcana. Instead given the harsh enviroment they come from, and their unnatural ability to drain life in order to heal, maybe Endurance would fit better. Just a thought. -- Sepsis 11:29, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

Soul Claim

If you go to edit the page you can see what Soul Claim is supposed to do, yet this information does not appear in the normal viewing browser. Can anyone fix this? -- Jota 19:29, 6 July 2009 (MDT)

iam not sure what you mean Jota. -true warrior 7-09-09 8:46am

You had filled in the information for Soul Claim, but it wasn't appearing on the main page, which is why I (and others) had previously complained about you not saying what it does. Sepsis was kind enough to fix it. -- Jota 10:56, 9 July 2009 (MDT)

I corrected the issue for Jota. Although being a Daily is does not need its Requirement, and as it only effects Minions it really shouldn't have a Miss effect (you can't cause them "half damage"). The power should probably be turned into an Encounter (still lose the Requirement) and it should heal HP "as if you have used a Healing Surge". That allows it to scale better and it really won't unbalance anything if used during every encounter. -- Sepsis 10:57, 9 July 2009 (MDT)

I don't know anything about 4e, so I can't speak to its balance, all I can judge is whether or not the information is there or not. You (truewarrior) should probably go with what Sepsis said (he's designed numerous high-quality 4e races, including two of the ones I originally suggested you take a look at) if you want a balanced, high-quality end product. -- Jota 11:12, 9 July 2009 (MDT)

It is impossible to reduce a minion to half health as they only have one hit point. And besides, minions are never damaged by missed attacks. --Aboleth11 14:39, 10 July 2009 (MDT)

Racial Traits

Where, exactly, are the race's racial traits? All it has are the base things (such as ability scores, vision, skills and so on), and a single power. It's been racial-trait-less since the Template: Delete was removed, and, without racial traits, its not a viable race in game terms (and its lack of fluff doesn't help). Can someone add some racial traits, please? Otherwise, Template: Delete will have to be replaced on the page. I'll be more than happy to help balance and improve the racial traits, and offer some assistance with the fluff. --  Sam Kay   talk    contribs    email   10:34, 10 July 2009 (MDT)

Heres an idea (based on race's proclivity toward "fast" speed): "Gusting Dash: Once per Encounter you gain a +2 racial bonus to your Speed."

Anyways its just a thought, seeing as how the author originally wanted this race to extremely fast. -- Sepsis 10:58, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

Just had another idea (based on the limited fluff), for a Racial Trait...although name could be better: "Arctic Senses: Your race has grown sensitive to the world around them. You gain a +3 racial bonus to your Perception skill." -- Sepsis 11:08, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

One more...and I can't believe I missed it: "Cold Heart: You have resist Cold 2 + 1/2 your level." -- Sepsis 11:55, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

sepsis,sam,please do edit my race how ever you want. I love gusting dash,please add that.soul claim does have alot of holes so please change it how you wish. I really like artic senses also, if its posible please put both.what do you mean more fluff? what do you suggest? thank you guys.-true warrior 10:04 7-13-09

Because there is no prexisting lore on these guys we know nothing about their society, religion, games, etc. When you create an entirely new race you are left with the task of telling us all these things within the "fluff". In this case you really want to expand and give more detail about the Vatirean "world" under the Playing a Vatirean section. Under the Physical Qualities section you will want to give greater detail to things like diet, age, death, and/or birth (if the details are unique and intresting enough) along with the standard eye, hair, and skin colorations. Anyways I hope that helps. -- Sepsis 21:09, 16 July 2009 (MDT)

For Those Who Think Absconder and True Warrior are the same person

I wasn't sure what post to leave this on, but I was editing the vaterians, so I decided to do this here. Anyways, my friend true warrior and I are not in fact the same person. We are close friends who converse over the phone about these DnD races. So lay off true warrior about trying to pass himself off as two different people. I'm the one who knows more about 4th edition, has better spelling and grammar, and so on, so that's why I do alot of the fixing of the races. True warrior and myself are two different entities, I can assure you. --Absconder 21:18, 2 September 2009 (MDT)

Stub

I will be shortly (meaning within the next couple of weeks) be editing the Vatireans to meet all of your recommendations and suggestions (Yay!). Anyway I will be looking for feed back and your opinions on the final Vatireans. Thanks for your time. --True warrior 19:20, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Other then answering and dealing with the suggestions/ideas above feel free to remove the template when the issues there have been dealt with too. Looking forward to an improved version of this, and have fun! --Green Dragon 23:30, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah bout me editing the Vatireans soon....might not happen that fast.But i will try to get online every chance I get.--True warrior 19:13, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Workin on this race. Hope it satisfies.--True warrior 14:36, 9 March 2012 (MST)