Talk:Vampire (5e Race)

Balance

Racial traits that are gained after the first few levels should generally be avoided. If they must be kept, consider instead making a class exclusive to this race. Some decent, albeit limited examples of this include Barbed Devil (5e Race) and Goron (5e Race).

Of the racial traits available at 1st level, the only problem is Vampiric Bite, which in its current form can restore an immense amount of "health," and effectively gives the vampire up to four combat-capable, replacing hirelings for one racial trait. Furthermore, it doesn't specify that it doesn't affect non-living creatures... or that it only affects humanoids and not, say, dragons. If that trait was nerfed or replaced, and the later-level traits were removed, I think this race would be perfectly good. - Guy (talk) 16:43, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

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I believe I have made this class balanced, and would like feedback on the changes. I used the old version as a template, but made several changes. I added a lot more negatives to counteract the positives. I added vulnerability to fire damage to balance the resistant to piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage. I removed the ability to heal from health potions and healing spells, instead dealing poison damage. I made the bite attack to be similar to cantrips. I was more descriptive in which targets you can drink blood from, and only have a healing effect if the target is humanoid. I removed the blood manipulation trait (I hate things that make the DM decide how it works). I forced the class to drink blood or suffer exhaustion. I added the clarification on being defeated if dying in sunlight or running water like actual vampires in the manual. I added more weaknesses, and made them harsher trying to parallel the 20 damage taken from running water and sunlight a normal vampire has.

The most important change was removing all the stuff that was clearly overpowered and grouped them into feats that players have access to under this race. They are very powerful feats, but players are forced to unlock them over time by leveling, and are forced to give up ability score improvements and other feats in order to unlock vampire feats.

I also added some item choices that a player might want in the game that DMs should consider adding if they have a player using the vampire class.

I feel like starting with 1 vampire feat, since the human class can start with a feat. I only think that the +2 to Dex and Charisma may be a little too much, but then again players don't have the ability to choose which abilities get the addition, so that in of itself may be okay.

I would love again if someone reviewed the changes and added to this talk page.--ImpDesign (talk) 02:29, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

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I looked through the race and would like to point out a few things that may need explaining or appear to be too powerful. The languages a vampire could know is tricky, usually, the longer a vampire lives, the more time it has to learn languages, yet a new vampire has not had the time yet to learn all those other languages yet. In the end, the languages part is up to you, but it could lead to situation where all of a sudden you know 2 more languages out of thin air which is very bad for role play. You should also clarify either in Misty Escape or Sunlight Hypersensitivity how a vampire can die, as in taking radiant damage and dropping to 0 hit points, a way of the DM's discretion or a custom way of your choosing. Something that needs explaining is that you should mention how long the poisoned part of Garlic Intolerance lasts, as in it could last anywhere between 1 round to 24 hours. In terms of balance, the Legendary Resistance feat seems to be stronger in comparison to the other feats, but I am unsure how to change it to make it more balanced, maybe reduce it to 2? Finally, the Vampire Campaign Items are great, however you should add a cheaper item that allows a vampire to walk in the sun at will without taking radiant damage, or another similar effect for a set number of hours every day.

Besides that everything is marvelously written, and balanced for how well balanced a vampire race could be. It is up to you ImpDesign, or someone anyone else that is willing to talk about how to change things around and whether or not to wait for more options on the class. I can go into further detail as to why I thought some of the things above if you are unsure about changing something, and am happy to help.

--Blobby383b (talk) 18:25, 26 June 2017 (MDT)

Feel changes are needed

As you state in your introduction, vampires are not born, but created. It is my feeling that therefore the vampire is not a race but a variant and should reflect both a base race plus the vampire variant. For example, you start with the human traits +1 to all stats or +2 to 1 stat, +1 to 2 stats a skill and a feat. Now you add the vampire variant to this. If you take the +1 to all stats, vampire would give you +1 to 3 stats, +2 to 1/ +1 to 1 or +3 to 1 plus a feat and skill. If you chose the feat and skill as a human, you just get the stat increase. Additionally, no stat could go beyond 20 without magical items.

I would also lose the legendary action feat altogether. The likelihood of your toon being legendary is slim.

Also while a good idea, the coffinic structure seems to be impractical. Maybe instead the vampire has an anchor much like a lich that keeps it bound to this plane even in death.

The problem with this is that, you could be a vampire without Darkvision, and giving a race access to 2 races' traits is way too powerful. Also, you were a corpse before this and are then are transformed into the vampire race when turned and gain the vampire's traits instead of your own, see 5e SRD:Vampire for reference as it does not list a vampire's base race's traits. Having your PC transform into the vampire race solves these balance problems and prevents things from getting too complicated.

I agree on the Legendary Action feat, I have removed it.

Coffins are part of what makes a vampire a vampire. At lower levels, you would have to drag it along physically or leave it behind in a safe space but take the exhaustion if you drop to 0. Once you have accumulated some gold, a party member can buy a bag of holding or carriage and put a the coffin in it to travel with wherever you go.--Blobby383b (talk) 08:25, 17 July 2017 (MDT)

Perhaps this would be more appropriate as a subrace that could be applied to multiple different races, similar to the Revenant from Unearthed Arcana? — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎ . . 12:18, 11 October 2017 (MDT)

That is like saying you keep your racial traits after you are reanimated as a zombie/other undead, which seems pretty unreasonable.--Blobby383b (talk) 22:26, 11 October 2017 (MDT)

I'm going off of previous editions, which had "vampire" as a template that could be applied to humanoids. In 5th edition, there's actually rules in the MM for turning existing characters into vampires. In both cases it's an applied template, and the creature gets to keep their racial traits. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs | email)‎ . . 22:56, 11 October 2017 (MDT)

The MM does have info on turning a PC into a vampire, and so does the wiki, but in terms of balancing a race, the bonuses the MM gives to a PC are not reasonable for a subrace or a race, hence the need for homebrew. I do not believe the race would be balanced if the race was a subrace instead(with all the feats, and the race would lacking in features that actually make it feel like you are playing a vampire). Also, most users that want to play a vampire want a variety of powerful options, which this race provides in its current form.--Blobby383b (talk) 23:59, 11 October 2017 (MDT)

Clarification

Overall this is a great home-brew for playing a balanced vampire. I am wanting to play it and just have two points that need some clarification. It says that drinking blood can heal but it is not stated how much the heal is. I feel a scaling heal based on level could work to keep in line with the different level health potions that players will receive as they play. Another thing I noticed was the mist form for misty escape receives damage resistance while the shape changer feat offers damage immunity in mist form. Resistance in this case would not work because misty escape triggers at zero hit points which would mean any damage, resistance or no, would equal death.

Thanks for the praise. I've bumped resistance to immunity and given the shapechangers temporary hit points when they go into mist form as well as sorted out healing via drinking blood stuff so it's on par with the healing potions in the DMG. I've been meaning to garner playtest info but like a lot of my pages, I don't have the chance too. Please do let me know of your findings. —ConcealedLight (talk) 12:54, 28 June 2018 (MDT)

Bad Image

The 3rd image on this page which used to show Dracula is now a bad image and needs to be replaced. I did find a nice picture of a vampire here, but am unsure if there are plans to replace the image with another of Dracula, hence I haven't replaced the image yet. Thoughts?--Blobby383b (talk) 20:43, 25 August 2019 (MDT)

Dracula was used to show the vampiric development from spawn to true to dracula so an image that follows that trend would be good. —ConcealedLight (talk) 06:57, 29 August 2019 (MDT)

Recent Edits

The recent edits, while introducing some cool ideas, also introduced a lot of balance/other problems to the race. With the regeneration feat, free actions are not a thing in 5e, you should not be able to regain hit points forever like how a creature regenerates as it is beyond broken for a feat, and the regaining of hit points with the ring of dracula is already covered in a more balanced manner with the unnatural regeneration trait. The new effect for misty escape also didn't make sense/wasn't needed, plus you shouldn't be able to damage others while your practicality invincible against a lot of creatures. As such balance changes were made to regeneration and the new misty escape effect was removed.--Blobby383b (talk) 11:08, 18 September 2019 (MDT)

There's alot of grammatical errors, if you unprotected the page we could fix that up for ya.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by InTheMist (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

Besides the coffinic not being a word, there does not appear to be any grammar issues. If there are, could you point them out to me so I can fix them as this page should stay protected due to the sheer amount of vandalism it gets.--Blobby383b (talk) 09:27, 20 November 2020 (MST)

Ring of Dracula

1) Is there an actual table intended for use regarding the "Random Properties" element to the Ring of Dracula, or is it intentionally left ambiguous and intended for the DM to fill in?

2) Purely a matter of semantics on this one, but in the section regarding the indestructability of the Ring of Dracula, it's stated that the ring is indestructible, but then goes on to say in the same sentence how the ring can be destroyed. Is there, perhaps, a less self-contradicting way to phrase that?

The ring of Dracula is a artifact and is thus bound by the artifact rules in the Dungeon Masters Guide. Of which reading will answer your two questions. —ConcealedLight (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2020 (MST)

Blood Drinker

Could we speficy that only removes exhaustion caused by blood drinker trait. Otherwise i see it being abused a lot. 15:06, 17 May 2021 (EST)

Thanks anon for pointing that out, I have since fixed that and cleaned up some other wording.--Blobby383b (talk) 14:47, 19 May 2021 (MDT)

Animated Bite, Ring of Dracula and Shapechanger

Something about the Enhanced Fangs doesn't make sense to me. In the last piece of text, you can raise a humanoid after slaying them into your Vampire Spawn by midnight under your control, as many as you like. And in Animated Bite, you can have TWO Vampire Spawns by the feat. That makes Animated Bite a tad redundant compared to the Ring of Dracula's effect. I feel like that piece of text on Enhanced Fangs should be removed.

On another note, Shapechanger is... kinda useless? Maybe works as an infiltration, but... Alter Self is 2nd Level Spell (for a Vampire's Enhanced Feat, but can also use Disguise Kit for similar effect), Gaseous Form is 5th (can't take any actions, so nothing like Life Drain from Vampiric Mist. And, that also lasts a minute so not exactly perfect infiltration kit) and Bat Form is a shorter Wild Shape but you can cast spells in it. That's great. But you're also easily shot down and compared to other vampire feats (Superior Body or Children of the Night, can be used for very cheesy strats or easy Conjure Animals), it's not worth it. Also another thing, you turn into a mist when you're reduced to 0 HP without the feat, so, not even necessary to have Shapechanger.

What could be done is, maybe, give Misty Form a Life Drain that scales up to your Con Stat/proficiency bonus, both Bat Form and Misty Form last a hour and use Bonus Action to transform? As for Enhanced feat, allow in a Gargoryle form, perhaps? --Kat5 (talk) 07:42, 26 May 2021 (GMT+2)

Another benefit of Shapechange is allowing you to transform into mist when you are not reduced to 0 hit points and can be useful in escaping, exploring, avoiding damage, ect. Besides that, the bat form is quite useful as you have said and because I believe the feat is quite strong as is and don't believe it needs to be powered up even more(and the feats by themselves are not supposed to be too powerful and are meant to be somewhat close to the power level of a regular feat). Besides that, adding a gargoyle or some form to the Enhanced feat version of shapechanger sounds is a good idea.--Blobby383b (talk) 14:10, 29 May 2021 (MDT)