Talk:Twilight Artificer (3.5e Prestige Class)

Review Please

A player in my group designed the basis for this class, and I would like some help balancing it further. Aarnott 10:20, 23 January 2007 (MST) [1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Green Dragon (talk • contribs) 06:20, 25 February 2006 (MST). Please sign your posts.

Balance 5/10

Here's my gut impression.

• The role-playing limitations of this ability do not balance it. They are a nice flavor.
• 1:10 XP ratio is too cheap. At first level, you would acquire 100xp, or enough to make a 2,500 gp item. At 10th level alone, that's enough for 10,000 / 10 x 25 = 25,000 gp item. I would favor a 1:25 ratio.
• The discount ratio seems advances a bit too fast for me. The +20% should come at 5th level, if at all.
• Unlimited constructs.
• This class's abilities, due to being able to produce magic items, actually makes every member of party stronger. That's a big deal.
• The "fluff" makes no material difference in the actual class abilities. The weapons produced are just like every other magic weapon and armor.

All in all, I'm not too comfortable with this. I don't really know where to tell you to take it. The class is pretty looking and written clearly (yay!!!!). The class has no heart. It's missing something. I don't know what that something is. --Dmilewski 15:11, 23 January 2007 (MST)

I agree with your points, thanks for taking a look. And I know what this class is missing: being able to do stuff besides craft. And you are right about the 1:10 ratio -- it is ridiculous. I liked the idea better than a flat 20% XP reduction for crafting (to match the gold) that the player proposed. The reason a crafting pool seems better is that it allows him to advance in level with the party so he won't be too severely under leveled. I like my parties having close levels (I always award quest experience rather than by trap/encounter so that everyone is the same). I will change the ratios to 1:50 then 1:25 for 5th. Discount ratio will be changed to 5% then 10%, with an associated 10% crafting speed up for each (more gold spent, faster craft time). The constructs problem is nearly the same as any other class with only a 10% reduction and the lowered XP bonus. What I need is some sort of power that is either aggressive or defensive so this class stops being boring. Any ideas? Aarnott 15:55, 23 January 2007 (MST)

I should also point out that the caster level thing was when I was thinking of letting this work for wands too and then realized how broken that is. I'll think of something useful that the PrC can "imbue" into items -- maybe some sort of bonus when they are used at night. I suppose it is useful however for dispelling and such, but not all that useful... Aarnott 16:01, 23 January 2007 (MST)

Rather than fully enchanting items, I see this as an interesting way to give items "temporary" enchantments. Require greater magic weapon. The artificer can determine what magical affects a weapon and armor will have. I'd say two "pool points" per level. You can then go all offense (everyone gets a +3 weapon), all defense (everyone gets +3 armor), or a mixture.

Let's do a mental exercise: the average party will have four main weapons, two ranged weapons, four suits of armor, one shield, four rings of protection, four amulets of natural armor, and one other. That's 20 possible things to get a +1. You should be able to trick one guy out. So you should get points equal to [ 4 x Greater Magic Weapon Maximum ]. So a 6th character level artificer should get 12 Plusses to place on weapons, armor, bracers, items of protection, and items of natural armor. These plusses can be just plusses (+3) or special (+2 flaming). Enchantment lasts one week. (This gives you time to stay underground without getting too abused.)

Essentially, the character assumes a larger logistical support role.

There's a good argument to remove spellcasting all together, instead using knowledge: religion. Then the elven fighters can use their moon knowledge to enhance their own weapons and armor. This could actually be an interesting non-spellcaster route to getting magic items.--Dmilewski 17:54, 23 January 2007 (MST)

I decided I will add a second PrC called the Twilight Warrior that will have the abilities you mentioned. I really like the idea, and I think it deserves its own class. As for this one, I'm going to see if I can make some changes that are balanced and give this class some flavor. I might make a grouping of Twilight PrCs so I'm going to incorporate the idea of temporary enhancements here. Aarnott 10:51, 1 February 2007 (MST)