Talk:Tsukumogami (5e Race)

Reboot?

Maybe if spirit body is just solid and doesn't disappear, but spirit vessel is also solid and doesn't disappear, but if it gets lost or stolen the spirit body can teleport to the vessel's location once per long rest. The vessel and body still both share the same hitpoint pool, though, so the incentive is still there to keep good track of it at all times. ...It'd darn near guarantee getting split off from the party; do I care that much about emphasizing that the vessel is a mundane item and that the body is a magical construct? Also though, would it actually guarantee that? That'd have to be a conscious decision by either the DM or a player. Also, should the player still be able to play Prop Hunt, by basically treating the vessel as a familiar? Knowlessman (talk) 00:05, 26 May 2020 (MDT)

A New Thought

The main races traits are kinda bloated with all the fiddly bits. Would it make sense to put in a kind of sidebar dealy labeled "Ruling Suggestions" or the like to consolidate all the rules-lawyer junk in one place and declutter the Traits section? Knowlessman (talk) 16:08, 16 January 2019 (MST)

Think I'm actually, finally, kinda happy with where I'm at on this thing. Knowlessman (talk) 00:15, 4 May 2019 (MDT)

-

Considering making a Clothing subrace as well, but not sure. :/ Not sure what abilities I'd give it that would be near as interesting. Knowlessman (talk) 08:51, 26 January 2016 (MST)

Well, if I were doing Clothing, I would probably give it +2 Dex, and maybe share proficiencies when attuned. Since as as they will be worn rather than held, they would be better able to guide their wearer's actions. Just a thought that comes to mind. And with that, maybe a bonus proficiency. That way you have the fighter version, the mage version, and the rogue version.--Draconm (talk) 22:36, 12 April 2018 (MDT)

So, since the race seems to be back and working again, here is my suggestion for it. Going to wait for Knowlessman to approve it, but want to add this subrace.

Clothing Tsukumogami

Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 2.
Spiritual Expertise. You can share your skill with the linked creature. When you link with a creature, or after a long rest, select a skill both you and the linked creature are proficient in. You both have expertise in that skill.
Shared Skills. When you or a linked creature wear your vessel while conducting a skill check, you can use your reaction to allow the linked creature to use your proficiency in that skill instead of the linked creature and the creature can use its reaction to do the same for you.

--Draconm (talk) 18:01, 25 August 2021 (MDT)

Why the blazes isn't the Alignment thing showing up in the subraces? It's coded exactly the same as in the first block, but the formatting is pretending it doesn't exist. Knowlessman (talk) 07:57, 31 January 2016 (MST)

Just now realized what merry hell a Barbarian team could wreak with their stacking rage bonuses. :/ Oh, well. Knowlessman (talk) 08:04, 31 January 2016 (MST)

Never mind that (fixed that anyways), what about a Warlock with another caster? 0_0 Shiiiiiit... Knowlessman (talk) 22:52, 1 June 2016 (MDT)

Gawd, this race is so complicated to find all the rules interactions for. I like it so much, but it's so complicated... How much of this should I be leaving up to DM's? Is it more trouble than it's worth? Knowlessman (talk) 22:48, 27 September 2016 (MDT)

OK. Fine. I keep seeing this thing over and over and over again in my watchlist. What the heck is going on here? Oh. It's a yokai. Weird. Well, let's start with some research, I suppose. Gotta' know the roots of the idea before I can criticize it. Oh look, Wikipedia has the answers. What a weird idea. Well, let's see how we play an animated hundred-year-old jock-strap... OK, so, right away, I dislike the physical description. The artwork depicting yokai is always so exciting and exotice, the frightening, absurd, and comedic all rolled into one, yokai are like satanic loony-toons characters on acid! This race, though, it just has you look like a little people. How droll. History seems fine for what they are. What the? No society section? Broken preload. Wikify template. Good naming section! Encourages some very enigmatic naming choices! Can you imagine playing a character named "Path"? I can. That's awesome. Huh! Total ASI between race and subrace is only +2! How refreshing! I wonder what the -1 ASI went towards...? Age is a little vague. And has typos. I'll just fix those while I'm here. Alignment seems well-reasoned. 5e does not use the term "statistics". Please change that to ability scores. Smart wording there, about preventing a single source from damaging both the weapon and the spirit body. AOEs were the first issue that popped to mind before I got to that line. Not needing to breathe is a big deal. Go watch Pirates of the Carribbean for an example of why. Wow. Mend becomes the greatest spell ever for your allies to possess if you play as one of these. Is creature attunement = magic item attunement? Or are they entirely separate mechanics? Regarding the item itself, you need to write a feature which explains where the item comes from, and what items are valid options. I would recommend something like, "Choose one non-consumable item provided by your class or background. This item is your physical body." That way, the class and background create the race, and retroactively justify themselves from the item selection. (Example: The player chose to be a paladin and then chose their holy symbol to be their body, character says: "I am a paladin because I am a holy symbol.") OK! After reading the two subraces and how they function, I have to say this is a really, really cool concept for a race! I would encourage a closer reading of the terms for allowing other creatures to hold and use your body. If an enemy grabbed your body, then your spirit body would disappear at the end of your next turn if you can't get it back. Though you can manifest a new spirit body each turn, as long as you fail to wrest yourself free from their clutches, they could do whatever they want with you. Depending on the item you are based from, this can be very bad. They could set your physical form on fire if it is flammable. Or they could toss you into environmental hazards to destroy you utterly. With careful teamwork, this race can be very powerful- with carelessness, this race can be shockingly weak. That seems really unstable to me, and akes me worry about this race, balance-wise. A bad player or DM could find this race non-functional or overpowered simply through poor decision choices or playstyle preferences. --Kydo (talk) 04:30, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

...Dat textwall tho. :|

1. I put very specific examples of what your base item can and can't be in the subraces; come to think of it, though, maybe that should be in the first block.

2. As for society, they don't, and kind of can't, have one, being as nobody can predict when or where a tsukumogami will form, and even two of them meeting each other would basically require gross plot contrivance. This is why I mentioned them in the Race Guidelines discussion page. Should I put a Society header in there just to assert that in the page?

3. I switched around the ASI's a lot, but was always pretty sure they should only be +2, if only because I was sure there must be a way to make these overpowered that I wasn't thinking of; several races in Unearthed Arcana have ASI's of +2, so that was the example I was taking it from.

4. I based Living Spirit off of the UA Warforged's Living Construct trait (Eberron PDF). Granted, Warforged hardly has any other traits, so maybe I overestimated this. I know poison is a big thing, too; maybe I should take that immunity back out.

5. Mending does not restore hitpoints. It will fix a dead tsukumogami's base item to prepare it for rezzing, but I hope no DM would allow it to restore hitpoints, given that the spirit is sustained by magic, which mending specifically says it cannot restore to an object.

6. I intend for attunement to work identically to attunement with regular magic items. Either creature can break it (I should probably say that the wielder can break the attunement as a bonus action as well, so people don't have to look it up, and maybe add a telepathy benefit to it while I'm at it), and it counts towards the three-attunements limit for both creatures.

7. Hadn't thought about what happens if the base item is grabbed by an enemy. Should definitely put something in there about that.

8. Nothing's stopping a trinket from being a holy symbol, and a trinket tsukumogami can use itself as a spellcasting focus regardless of what casting class it is. A tool is a lot less likely to be a holy symbol, although I guess an extremely pious society might craft tools that have holy symbols on them.

Thank you for being one of the first people to finally give me any real feedback on this damned thing. Knowlessman (talk) 12:20, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

No problem. I'm actually glad I finally took the time to read this thing.

1. Yes, but you haven't actually said where they get the item from, what it's chosen from, or anything. It's fine to imply that the race comes with an item out of necessity, but it's another thing entirely when you have a player looking at you going, "so where do I pick my item from? Can I just make up some item off the top of my head, or do I pick from stuff in the PHB? Can I choose items from the DMG? If so, I choose to be a cannon!" I was suggesting that the item be chosen from your starting gear in order to put some clear boundaries on this. We already know that the starting gear is, (assumedly) balanced, and races generally don't provide gear, but a racial trait which lets you make one of those starting items very special and important would resolve the matter entirely.

2. The society section isn't just for what their personal culture looks like. That is one of the most annoying misunderstandings people keep making here. I really should write a section about it in the 5e Race Design Guide. The society section is also about how they exist in any society; whether or not they can fit in, how they subsist, how others view them, the type of work they typically choose for themselves, etc. Even a society section which describes how they reject civilization and instead live off the land in isolation is valid, because it shows how they exist in the world, socially, and gives DMs and players a better idea of how these things should exist and interact with other people. It's an inspiration source and roleplaying que.

6. You need to specify that a creature attunement takes up an attunement slot. As it's worded now, a player could attempt to persuade a DM that they are not the same thing. --Kydo (talk) 13:52, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

Oh, also, to bring up another issue, how does this race interact with backgrounds? If I play a Tsukumogami/Ranger/Acolyte, what does the acolyte background, or any other background, mean for a person who is, essentially, a magic item who could be as young as 3 minutes old? --Kydo (talk) 13:58, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

Oh, and ANOTHER idea! For clarity, perhaps try coming up with a keyword to refer to the item a tsukumogami lives in. We already have spirit body, so it's easy to refer to that, but "your item" is clunky and vague. If we keyworded the item the tsukumogami is based from, then there's far less chance of misleading rules interpretations. --Kydo (talk) 14:15, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

Clarified 1 (The limits were right there in the subrace descriptions from the start; a cannon is neither similar to a simple melee weapon nor small enough to be a trinket, and doesn't exist in campaigns by default anyway), made a first attempt at addressing 2 (That one's a fair point), did 6. As for last thing, you don't meet most PC's when they're a month old, either; it says right there in the... Dammit, that should really be in the Traits column under Age as well, shouldn't it. The term "base item" was already in there (albeit not with 100% consistency), but fine, I idiot-proofed it.

Something else I realized, though... :| Knowlessman (talk) 17:49, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

And that's why I wanted there to be a specific reference source from which the item is chosen. Allowing players to just invent what their base item is gives a creative player the opportunity to ruin a game by intentionally giving themselves an item with outrageous implicit power.

Also, what the heck is wrong with that forum you are on?! Those people are out of their minds! --Kydo (talk) 22:26, 28 September 2016 (MDT)

...I'm pretty sure I'm well enough covered on the Tool subrace, but do I really need to put "your base item cannot be a weapon, nor something usable as one, nor a ridonkulously powerful existing magic item" in the Trinket subrace? I don't think there's a DM in the multiverse who's gonna hear "Yeah, it was somebody's favorite magic amulet/hand crossbow/grenade/laser pistol so it counts as a small trinket" and let it fly. One of the backgrounds gives you "a hunting trophy," but nobody's going to get an entire elephant tusk out of that unless the DM wants them to have it. Hell, it's the land speed thing that worries me, given some of the other homebrew races we have on here. Bound to be at least one with a 70-ft land speed or something.

You should always leave room for a player to have their own ideas, as long as those ideas don't take all of the challenge out of the game or go wildly against the apparent intentions of the rules (which I think I've made clear enough). Those lines are for the DM to cross as they see fit, and any decent DM, who's allowing homebrew content in the first place, should be able to decide when and how much to let a player assume things that the rules don't state outright. I won't be making an absolute and finite list of the things that can form a tsukumogami; I think the category presented is clear enough.

By the way, that particular thread is basically the designated shitposting thread of the forum. :| It does have limits and obey the rules of the rest of the forum, though. If it's the craziest place you've ever been on the internet, then friend, you have not traveled the internet, and you need to do some sightseeing. :P Knowlessman (talk) 17:28, 29 September 2016 (MDT)

No, I agree that it's pretty clear now. Personally, if anything gives physical gear, I'd prefer it to come from something, rather than be made up by the players during chargen or play. Even backgrounds GIVE you roleplay items, rather than allowing the player to just make it up willy-nilly. That said, given the DM's authority over this content, I can only see inexperienced DMs allowing dysfunctional stuff into play. Personally, I'd just tell the player, "choose from your starting gear, because races don't give gear." or, if they really argue well, I'd tell them to choose from the PHB adventuring gear list. But that's a DM's call, and I can see the value in leaving the option open. Overall, I'm pretty happy with this thing. Looks like fun. I'll try putting together a couple of these characters and see how they play. I'm curious how two tsukumogami who are attuned to each other would play out! --Kydo (talk) 20:43, 29 September 2016 (MDT)

Thanks. I've been dying to see or hear about how this works out in practice. The one one-shot I used one of these in didn't tell me anything; I was too busy sneak attacking the Great Pumpkin with a sunblade.

I foresee a game of Prop Hunt in your future. :P (BTW the intended AC of a tsukumogami('s base item) is 10+Dexmod as usual but it is also intended that attacks are usually targeted at their spirit body if it's holding them, and the spirit body's AC is affected by armor it is wearing, shields it is wielding, and any applicable magic items or potion effects; I'm not sure whether that needs clarification in the Traits as well, but that section is bloated enough as it is. :/ Also, obviously, your spirit body does not count as a creature and cannot trigger your own Sneak Attack.) Knowlessman (talk) 08:12, 30 September 2016 (MDT)

Idea: Tool subrace is feeling sort of like it's missing something. It isn't feeling like there's much incentive for a tool tsukumogami to have another creature wield it (although a Paladin wielding a Rogue or a Battle Master might be something to see), and a wielded tool tsukumogami probably isn't going to have much use for their reaction like a trinket does. What do you think of letting a tool spirit use their reaction to give a wielding attuned creature advantage on an attack roll? Knowlessman (talk) 08:31, 30 September 2016 (MDT)

Actually, about that, I was just running a test combat. I had a trinket barbarian wielding a tool monk. (I used monk, because I figured that while their item is being used, at least they can still dish out some punishment in spirit body) A goblin incited an opportunity attack by exiting the barbarian's reach, but was still in reach of the monk. Did both creatures get the OA, or did it only go to the person wielding the item? Or, put another way, does your item still count as "you" while you are in spirit body? Also, if the tool was a sorcerer instead, would that sorcerer be able to cast spells from their item form? How would they satisfy the various spell components for a given spell if they can? Can they only cast verbal spells while in item form? What about cantrips? --Kydo (talk) 08:53, 30 September 2016 (MDT)

D: The base item and spirit body aren't intended to stay separated! I'mma have to undo the wording change on that, I think.

A tsukumogami can't make normal attacks with only their base item (I mean, if you're on a shelf and trying to fall on someone, sure, that's an attack roll, but that's about it), so only the barbarian would get the AOO (assuming they hadn't already used their reaction to let the tool use the Attack action, which by the way wouldn't let them attack with their spirit body as well; lastly, only the base item itself counts as a magic weapon, unless of course the monk has the level 6 monk feature).

This is gonna get philosophical, but neither the base item nor the spirit body is "you" for a tsukumogami, any more than a human's brain or body is; we are the patterns of thoughts and impulses within our brains. The pattern of thoughts and impulses that comprise a tsukumogami's consciousness are housed within its base item. If you had two bodies (such as the base item and the spirit body) and both bodies could make attacks (the base item can't, except on the tsukumogami's turn if its wielder lets it), then you could spend your (1) reaction on (1) opportunity attack from either body, being as you are still one creature.

With only their base item, a sorcerer tsukumogami can only cast spells that don't require somatic components, including through the Subtle Spell metamagic feature; different cantrips have different components. A trinket tsukumogami uses itself as as a spellcasting focus, and so ignores material components that don't have a cost; a tool tsukumogami does not, and can only cast spells through its base item that only have verbal components. One must "handle" a material component, and the spirit cannot do that without limbs... Shit. I'm not sure on that point, actually; one needs limbs to satisfy somatic components, but "handling" might very well be satisfied by "touching" a material component, so that one would go to the DM, I think.

TL;DR: A tsukumogami can't make opportunity attacks using only its base item, but can cast spells that don't require hands using only its base item (but a tool tsukumogami still needs material components). Knowlessman (talk) 16:54, 30 September 2016 (MDT)

I think the example you're talking about highlights that lack of incentive I was talking about, actually; there should be a genuine reason for a tsukumogami to let another creature wield its item, and for another creature to give them their reaction like that. Maybe I should simplify it so that the wielder doesn't need to use their reaction, so a tsuku basically fights the same as if they were wielding their own item, and you actually will get two AOO's from walking away from a creature wielding a tsuku's base item? As it stands, it is kind of a really bad bargain, and even counting as a magic item doesn't do that much (although racial features aren't really supposed to do this much in the first place, so maybe if I simplify the wielding thing it'll be just about perfect). I'mma try it. The advantage idea is probably overdoing it anyway. Knowlessman (talk) 17:08, 30 September 2016 (MDT)

Pact of the Blade. ...The weapon isn't sentient; you are, and you just live in it. D:< DAMMIT, ME Knowlessman (talk) 23:17, 24 October 2016 (MDT)

Just a whole bunch of questions, really.

Hello~

So I was wondering several things. How is it possible to have a background and class as an object? You clarified how to handle naming, armor class, speed, and age- but there's quite a bit else missing. My desired character is a Monk Tsukumogami, but I can't figure out what sort of background a shortsword could possibly have. Am I correct in thinking that means that if my spirit body is a Wood-elf, then I get the wood elf appearance and movement speed, but have the monk/[insert background here] ASI's for the rest of the cases? Would this mean I have the Monk's movement speed on top of the wood elf's +5 speed? Am I correct in that I don't gain the night vision or keen senses and so on? If I am, I feel like this class isn't getting an equivalent amount of boons, and should get something in return for not fully copying the spiritual body's race stats.

Wood elf gets:

1. +ms

2. Dark vision (great boon for vision)

3. Keen senses (proficiency from a race is always good)

4. Total ASI= +3 (3 is good)

5. Elf Weapon Training (More proficiency from Race bonuses)

6. Mask of Wild (I've never been able to use this, though I've only been a Wood Elf in 2 one-shots.)

7. 2 languages

Tsukumogami gets:

1. Total ASI= 2

2. Spirit body/Base Item (Essentially, "You have a body to do things with, with limitations, but you get the movement speed of it's base race and appearance as well.")

3? Living spirit (translates to not needing to eat/drink, and a death save change)

3.5? Spirit link: You can let someone else carry you, and you would still get to attack freely-but if you want to move, create a body first? Is that correct? But that seems to also tie into Spirit Body in some ways, so frankly it doesn't feel like another ability- worse still is that it practically combines with the next one.

3.75? Spiritual Weapon: This is a clarification stat. Only added boon is that both your character and the player that's Linked to your character automatically have proficiency with attacking using you. This is essentially a more wordy Elf Weapon Training.

4. 2 languages

5. Magical weapon overcomes resistances- I love this right here. :D

Sure, I get that there's an equal number of parts to your overall traits, but with the Wood Elf each trait gives something substantial and different- with yours there are 3 traits that all seem to work together, more as one that 3 separate.

I was curious about how you had both the spirit and the base item live off of the same health pool (while protected from AoE hitting both)- I figured when I started reading that it would be similar to a Druid's transformation HP, where that had to be whittled down before the actual HP could be effected.

In short, the flavor of this race is amazing, but I'm finding it hard to set up the background and such. Any tips? (Droitzel)

Thanks for the input; I tend to err on the side of making a class less powerful (and unfortunately, more complicated), so I tend towards giving races ASI totals of +2 just in case I overestimated how powerful their other features were. I'll try and answer your questions directly:

1. Firstly, the distinction I try to make in the description is that a tsukumogami is a spirit that lives in an object, not the object itself. Also, a shortsword can't be used for the race unless the DM allows it, seeing as it's not one of the suggested items. As far as picking a background, I'd suggest playing a Tsukumogami who has been up and about for awhile, maybe around 15 or older, so that they enter the campaign after having already gotten used to other creatures and found their role in whatever society they live in. A tsukumogami's base item and routines can point them towards a particular kind of living; one who lives in a smith's hammer might very well have found a job as a blacksmith (Guild Artisan), while one inhabiting a musical instrument could be an entertainer (background of the same name). Any tsukumogami might have any background, though, dependent only on what they did once they met other living creatures for the first time.

2. My intention is that you don't get any of the features of your last user's race besides their speed, size, and languages; a tsukumogami is its own person, and lives on its own talents, natural and otherwise. Being that it's pretty hard to determine exactly how powerful a feature is that just makes huge changes to how combat works without giving concrete bonuses, though, I understand how this would feel like a cop-out. :/ I'll give it a look. Knowlessman (talk) 14:38, 26 December 2016 (MST)

...Okay, lemme see. Tsukumogami TL;DR: +2 Con, +1 either Str or Cha; you live in either a simple melee weapon or a pocket-sized casting focus; you're immune to attack rolls as long as someone else is holding you; you can cast and attack regardless, but you also have a "spirit" body you can use to function normally; you either count as a magic weapon for DR/DI or can share spellslots with another caster (and have Mending, which surprisingly isn't made any more useful than normal because of your race); oh, you don't need to eat or breathe now, which is... not really that big IMO unless you need to go underwater for some reason; and if you have Pact of the Blade, you can absolutely banish yourself to Hammerspace like a fricking idiot. Knowlessman (talk) 16:55, 26 December 2016 (MST)

I keep thinking there must be some way to make this not brainbendingly overcomplicated. I am a gullible fool. Knowlessman (talk) 23:43, 13 February 2017 (MST)

...Just make the spirit body permanent and have the base item return to it automagically when separated from it? But then there goes half the concept; and letting them loan it to another character is just... not how this idea works. The only way to make it intuitive is to just end up with "you look like whatever you want, have a free armor-piercing weapon/casting focus". ...Which is exactly what it already is, plus Prop Hunt. le sigh... Knowlessman (talk) 09:13, 21 January 2018 (MST)

I added Humanoid and Aberration categories. If these are incorrect feel free to adjust them --Meep (talk) 10:53, 6 February 2018 (MST)

Miscellaneous ideas, just putting here so I can delete them from my phone: Make spirit body main body, and have the base item return to it at end of turn instead of dispelling it, while still letting them dispel the spirit body as a bonus action so as to allow the traits to be used; Apply wossnames, conditions, to what the spirit body can be, and suggest that yes, it should be something your DM would've let you play; Generally try and figure out ways to simplify the whole thing as much as possible while still letting it work the way I damn well want it to. Knowlessman (talk) 15:25, 19 February 2018 (MST)

Flavor

Small nitpick: They come alive after 100 years of just existing not neglect.

I know, but I got attached to the image of a ghost town where there's one person there just hoeing or playing or something and even they don't know why the place is empty. ...TBH, I can't remember why I decided to specify it being 100 years of neglect. Something about the thing getting lonely enough to self-animate, I guess, or having a mysterious past that they may or may not care about/that may or may not come up? (Also hi; you're supposed to sign talk page comments with four ~'s, just so you know.) Knowlessman (talk) 14:50, 10 June 2018 (MDT)

It's sposed to be Wis (Arcana) beca - ...Fine. Who cares. Frickin' be that way. Knowlessman (talk) 21:27, 3 June 2019 (MDT)

Note

I could not help but notice some drastic changes to this race since i last checked it, i have a chaaracter of this race, and it was fine before the change, anyone mind if i either fix it or post the old stuff here? -Anonymous-

First off, thanks for trying it. I've mostly been the one making huge changes to it, and am the one who first came up with it (or at least the version on this wiki), so I'd appreciate it if you don't revert it to how it was before; I made those changes because I decided it works better this way. ...And no, I'm honestly probably never going to be happy with it in any case. : | I'd recommend either just saving the version you've been using to your own computer, assuming you do have the features written down on your character sheet, or (and I know this is the less-likely option) changing the features in your character sheet to match this version. If you don't have all the stuff written down from when you made your character, you're able to view past versions in the History tab without reverting the actual page to them. Knowlessman (talk) 21:14, 16 June 2019 (MDT)

Warding Bond?

That's an effect that's already typified as a spell. As long as you're in item form and your attuned creature is holding you, the both of you are under the effects of a Warding Bond spell. Or, maybe past 3rd level, you can use your action to cast it sans components once per short rest on your attuned creature if they're holding you; the spell ends if either of you drop to 0 hit points, or if you and the attuned creature become separated by more than 5 ft, or if you manifest your spirit body. Had the idea while rewatching some Soul Eater. Anybody think anything about this? And maybe there could be no set duration, even. Dunno if that might be too much, though. Knowlessman (talk) 23:46, 12 July 2019 (MDT)

Make spirit body main body and do the EldKnight/BladeLock thing instead? Would make things so much easier (...probably?), and purely coincidentally bring it another step closer to Soul Eater. ...Hm. Maybe take out the "both can choose whose bonuses to use" bit from Tool subrace and add a magic weapon bonus. Maybe like +1 at, I dunno, 3rd or 5th, and +2 at somewhere around 10 or past it and +3 at way later? Simple weapon does cap at d8. ...But should Trinket also trade out shared spell slots for a similar bonus? Seems like that'd just be simplifying the bits that don't badly need simplifying. As for switching which is the "main" body, Spacious Vessel might need to be once per short. Knowlessman (talk) 00:28, 13 July 2019 (MDT)

Creature Type

I've seen this on several other homebrew race's pages, but I'm especially curious as to why this race in particular has not only two creature types, but the two posed are humanoid and aberration of all things. Why is this race not considered to be a construct, with the similarities it's "birth" has to that of other constructs? I get that, while most other constructs are given either very limited or nonexistent sentience by wizards, other spellcasters, or magical beings of sufficient power to create a construct, just how different is the tsukumogami's creation even without the powers of a mage giving it thought? You could even include the stipulation that being a construct in this case would not effect the usage of healing spells on this character. To further make my point, aberrations are typically incomprehensible entities so far removed from the natural order of the creatures on the material plane that they are not even considered to be monstrosities, creatures created by combining different parts of regular creatures (like the hydra being a bunch of giant snakes with legs, the chimera which is just a blend of creatures, or the owlbear which is what its name suggests). My other thought is that this race could be considered undead due to the fact the vessel is essentially being possesed by the spirit, but I might think that to be a part of the Variant where the tsukumogami is the spirit of its last user imbued into the item rather than a new spirit forming. Beyond this comment, I've also made the grammatical edits requested by the sidebar at the top of the page and did some rewording/rearranging of specific areas to help prevent confusion, as with the double-usage of the term "attunement" and changing where tools and trinkets are defined. Redundancies were removed as well, all to make certain areas less "wordy".

Another question: Spacious Vessel. I can imagine many different scenarios where only being able to use this once per day (changing to "short or long rest" would not help) would be such a hindrance/nuisance that I would not want to play as this version of a tsukumogami. Imagine a fighter duo and the fighter wielding you falls unconscious, leaving it up to you to defend him. Wouldn't it be so much more useful if you could just just pop out a fully armored spirit body to protect your fallen comrade, rather than need to spend 10 minutes every time you manifest your body putting on armor? Most dungeon crawls don't even last for half that amount time, assuming the party doesn't take a short rest between rooms. I realize that most of these situations (I know I've only written the one, but anyone reading this can use an imagination to think of other problematic scenarios) require specific builds and for that build to encounter a specific problem, but a cruel DM would happily use something along these lines to punish a party with a tsukumogami in it. I also know that this is one thing that will probably not be changed officially, but I thought I might as well make my voice heard. Can't hurt to try.

Last (I think) but not least, movement. Why not allow the vessel to hover 3 or 5 feet off the ground? This wouldn't have to change any aspect of the vessel's actually movement in any way, shape or form, such as by allowing it to fly or to hover over spike pits, but I'm mostly just imagining a once-pristine, oh, I don't know, let's say rake, willingly dragging itself through mud or some such. While the player would assumedly have the spirit body carry the tool (or trinket) over such a surface, who knows what situation the DM could come up with to make forming a spirit body either undesirable or impossible? I'm also imagining a necklace tumbling through the grass, somehow inexplicably not getting caught in the many plants it has to bash its way through just to get to its destination. IntellectMaster (talk) 16:01, 31 August 2019 (MDT)

First off, thanks for cleaning the thing up a bit; it needed it. Now, 1. Aberration, not Construct because the spirit wasn't constructed on purpose and is a product of Wild Magic, which is weird and aberrant; there are aberrations that aren't... looking into this, even ones that don't appear to have anything to do with the Far Realms still usually have telepathy or outright psionic stuff, so maybe my argument on this (which was Meep's idea in the first place) isn't as strong as I thought. 2. Yeah, you have a point; I changed it to be at-will. I'm not sure whether my concerns of it trivializing stealth/escape scenarios were really well-founded anyway. 3. I just don't think it's warranted, and don't think it encourages DM cruelty too much as-is; spending effort trying to preempt mean DM's is an exercise in futility anyway. Also it could potentially add immunity to difficult terrain to an already-bloated list of benefits: Prop Hunt, doesn't have to breathe while Prop Hunting, and either a free magic weapon or the ability to cheese spell slot limits if there's a Warlock in the party. Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, by the way. PS, "them" rather than "it" because tsuku's are people not objects. Knowlessman (talk) 02:07, 26 May 2020 (MDT)

Question about AC with spirit link

Heya, quick question: say someone else is wielding me. Can I be directly attacked? If so, what's my AC? is it 10 + dex mod, since I'm not wearing armor? Or does my AC match my wielder's? Nemid (talk) 20:13, 5 January 2020 (MST)

Haven't looked at this race in awhile, to be honest, but I think, given that your armor is in a pocket dimension, your AC is only 10 + Dexmod + any miscellaneous bonuses. However, being your wielder's weapon means that the attacker should have some logical in-character reason to be attacking you instead of your wielder. I should put in that your vessel's AC is either irrelevant while your spirit body is carrying it or that your armor's AC buff only applies while that's the case. ...Also, somebody went and disappeared my list of possible weapon item vessels, dang it. I liked that list. Knowlessman (talk) 13:00, 20 January 2020 (MST)

Thank you for the answers! For your list, can't you look back at an older edit using the "history" tab and copy it from there? Nemid (talk) 15:32, 20 January 2020 (MST)

Breathing

So the Abberant Nature. trait specifies that the spirit body has to breath while the vessel does not. But, what about races like warforged or even the air genasi with the Unending Breath. trait? While I would personally rule that the genasi trait would no longer apply as the rules state, I feel as though the warforged would be an acception to the rules and not require breathing.