Talk:Snappy Comeback Turtle (3.5e Equipment)

Small Edit

I really like the flavor of this little guy.

I tightened up the text, linked spells to the SRD, and standardized some capitalization. I changed Ironskin to Iron Body. (Ironskin is 2E).

A few issues to think about:

• Mimic appears in text of the creature, but not in its final spell list.
• The turtle needs movement modes and speeds.
• The turtle needs a touch attack to hit its opponents. (Fiat is not good for magic items.)
• Infinite spell interruption is a tad powerful. The mage, via a spell, throws his voice on a target, activating the turtle, which disables the target's ability to cast spells. That's bad. I suggest changing this to make a concentration roll of DC 15 to cast spells (10 + 5 for the turtle's strength).
• The creature needs hit points and AC.
• Make the creature's scathing wit a Bluff skill roll?

--Dmilewski 19:20, 3 January 2007 (MST)

Thanks for correcting the kinks in the design, I'm still a touch rusty at this.

Now, about them issues...

• I searched the wiki, and much to my suprise there is no spell for mimic, which suprises me slightly. I think I recall seeing the spell in a v3.5 book I thumbed through, and I know it was an ADnD spell. If anyone finds a spell that would replcate the sound of a voice, that would be useful
• Movement modes and speed added.
• Touch attack added
• I changed it to be a disruption that can be ignored by a will save
• Added
• That might be a good idea, actually. Added

Again, thanks for helping out

--Cypresslyshra 19:42, 3 January 2007 (MST)

For mimic, just use the same text as appears for the Blue Dragon (SRD Creature). Not only does this remove the problem of finding canon text for the ability, I think it streamlines it's use (using a will save to detect the ruse rather than a bluff check. This makes more sense-- the turtle is magic, so should require a will save. It isn't technically alive (it is mindless), so it shouldn't have skills or be able to make bluff checks). In any case, look at the dragon text and see if it works for you. I think it helps to streamline a great ability!

Further, I'd suggest changing the Concentration check from the butt biter ability. The character should have to make a Concentration check equal to 10 + the amount of damage suffered, as the check description indicates (here). This will probably work out to about 15, in any case, but wording like this is in line with the published skill, and so makes sense. --EldritchNumen 00:53, 4 January 2007 (MST)

Both finished. Thanks for the link to the blue dragon, and I think we'd already entered the concentration check=dc15. Oh well...--Cypresslyshra 01:53, 4 January 2007 (MST)

Balance

I think is is way worth the price for how it currently is. One thing stikes as me as very overpowered, and that is the This enchantment causes the turtle to home in on the attacker, and attach itself, via its very sharp mouth, to the offending person's rear, causing no damage but breaking the concentration required to cast a spell. First off, I see this turtle as a very slow walker, but having a very quick mouth. So I am not sure if the turtle should be able to "home-in" on a caster. However, if you want to keep this ability, the caster should have to make a concentration check (DC 20 maybe) to see if they really do lose their concentration, and the turtle should have a limit to how far they can home-in on an opponent, such as they an only home-in on opponents less than 20 feet away. I think making these changes should balance this item out quite a bit, what's your opinion? --Green Dragon 23:08, 3 January 2007 (MST)

Home in does not mean it instantly appears on the opponents rear end. It means that the turtle will start attacking that creature that the exclusion of most others.--Cypresslyshra 23:42, 3 January 2007 (MST)

Clarified the text to mean what I meant.--Cypresslyshra 23:51, 3 January 2007 (MST)

Much better... Also, I think the price for this is off as well... --Green Dragon 23:53, 3 January 2007 (MST)

Any suggestion? I'm guessing maybe multiply the current cost by 5?--Cypresslyshra 23:55, 3 January 2007 (MST)

That may be a little steep... I would suggest 7,000-10,000. This is not worth 15,000gp. However, I am just pulling numbers out of the air, and you may want more imput to lay your finger down on this price. --Green Dragon 00:05, 4 January 2007 (MST)

When it comes to numbers, I cede to your knowledge. 8,000gp sounds decent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cypresslyshra (talk • contribs) 01:07, 4 January 2007 (MST). Please sign your posts.

It looks good, except for the fact that the price and the price to create should not be the same... --Green Dragon 00:10, 4 January 2007 (MST)

-2000 gold from creation?--Cypresslyshra 00:17, 4 January 2007 (MST)

Not exactly. First, I don't think this is worth even 8k. I'd set the price at 7k (compare with Boots of Levitation (SRD Wondrous Item), which cost 7.5k and are useful much more of the time. This item should be between 6-7k). Second, wondrous items are a little difficult to estimate the price for, but (judging from the Creating Magic Items (SRD Rules)), I'd set the price to create at 3,500 gp + 280 XP. Here is the reason:

1. "An item’s market price is the sum of the item cost, spell component costs, and the base price." (Creating Magic Items (SRD Rules))
2. XP= 1/25 base cost; materials= 1/2 base cost (SRD:Craft Wondrous Item)
3. I.E. Wondrous item cost equals value (7k) - creation cost in compenents (3.5k) - base price (which is generally 0 for a wondrous item) + 1/25 * 7,000 in XP.
4. Therefore, the cost to create should be (7k-3.5k-0)/2, which equals 3,500gp, and 7,000/25= 280 XP.

So, the line should read: ...Prestidigitation; Price 8,000 gp; Cost 3,500 gp + 280 XP.

--EldritchNumen 00:53, 4 January 2007 (MST)

You've Got to get me the chart you run that on.--Cypresslyshra 01:53, 4 January 2007 (MST)

Creature

I was thinking, do you think it would be appropriate to make this turtle into a creature, and add it onto DnD Creatures? This way it would have stats etc. Is this a good or a bad idea? --Green Dragon 23:16, 3 January 2007 (MST)

Well, the turtle was originally an artifact, not a creature, and it has no recorded stats except for the ones that regulate how it does it's job. Also, unless otherwise stated, it has the same stats as a normal small sized turtle.--Cypresslyshra 23:42, 3 January 2007 (MST)

Okay. --Green Dragon 23:53, 3 January 2007 (MST)

What we really have here is a Figurine of Wondrous Power (SRD Wondrous Item). This is the model that this entry needs to follow. All animate objects need the animate object spell. --Dmilewski 07:04, 4 January 2007 (MST)

Ok, added. How does that alter the price?--Cypresslyshra 11:26, 4 January 2007 (MST)