Talk:Revolver, Variant (5e Equipment)
The damage should probably only be 1d8: it's supposed to be on par with a hand crossbow in terms of balance. Hand crossbows have the advantage of being able to multi-attack without reloading if you take the crossbow master feat, whereas the revolver has more damage but there's no feat to take to not have to reload every 6 attacks.
- The core game already has a revolver, in the DMG. If this is a knowing variant (probably a small calibre, if it has the light property), then it needs to be renamed appropriately. Marasmusine (talk) 09:24, 20 April 2018 (MDT)
Quality Article Nomination[edit]
— This article did not become a quality article. 13:39, 6 October 2019 (MDT)Please feel free to re-nominate it once it meets the QA criteria and when all the major issues brought up in this nomination have been dealt with.
It's been playtested. It's simple, not too powerful, and the reload mechanic is a cool drawback. If any of the fantasy firearms deserve a QA nomination, it's this one. Varkarrus (talk) 13:47, 9 January 2019 (MST)
- I have failed this nomination as per the below consensus. — Geodude
(talk | contribs | email) . . 13:39, 6 October 2019 (MDT)
Comment - I am not sure about the balance of a weapon that can be dual wielded and deals 1d10 damage. I understand an action is necessary to reload, but if I did this, I'd a banditito with dual straps across my chest with multiple six shooters! YEE HAW!
Other thing I see for this to be a QA is a variant rule for reload and link to it, or replace reload (6) with "Special" and then explain the special property in the description-up to you. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:11, 20 February 2019 (MST)
- I've playtested it, it's good, and not too powerful. It actually had a damage buff; originally it was just d8 damage. I should point out that two weapon fighting, by default, only works with light melee weapons, plus an action can only be used to reload one of them at a time. Though, I will admit, just carrying a bajillion revolvers to get around having to reload was something that didn't occur to me. Also, the Reload property is actually from the DMG's collection of anachronistic weapons, and is reiterated in the fantasy firearms page. Varkarrus (talk) 13:26, 20 February 2019 (MST)
- So after seeing the category being explicitly said to compare to vanilla D&D, I don't think this balanced. See below the assumptions of a fighter using this weapon at the mentioned levels, using extra attack:
| Mark | Description | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Level 1 | Xbow | Gun | |
| Round 1 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 2 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 3 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 4 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 5 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 6 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 7 | 1 | Reload | |
| Round 8 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 9 | 1 | 1 | |
| Round 10 | 1 | 1 | |
| Total | 10 | 9 |
| Mark | Description | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Level 5 | Xbow | Gun | |
| Round 1 | 1 | 2 | |
| Round 2 | 1 | 2 | |
| Round 3 | 1 | 2 | |
| Round 4 | 1 | Reload | |
| Round 5 | 1 | 2 | |
| Round 6 | 1 | 2 | |
| Round 7 | 1 | 2 | |
| Round 8 | 1 | Reload | |
| Round 9 | 1 | 2 | |
| Round 10 | 1 | 2 | |
| Total | 10 | 16 |
| Mark | Description | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Level 11 | Xbow | Gun | |
| Round 1 | 1 | 3 | |
| Round 2 | 1 | 3 | |
| Round 3 | 1 | Reload | |
| Round 4 | 1 | 3 | |
| Round 5 | 1 | 3 | |
| Round 6 | 1 | Reload | |
| Round 7 | 1 | 3 | |
| Round 8 | 1 | 3 | |
| Round 9 | 1 | Reload | |
| Round 10 | 1 | 3 | |
| Total | 10 | 21 |
Am I misunderstanding something here or is this weapon significantly more powerful than a hand crossbow? Even if compared with a heavy crossbow because of the damage, that is restricted by Heavy two-handed. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:21, 28 February 2019 (MST)
- I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that the hand crossbow user is using the crossbow expert feat, though you're correct that without it, this weapon quickly outpaces the standard hand crossbow. A 5th-level fighter with 16 Dex and Crossbow Expert will deal, on average, 19.5 damage per round (extra attack+bonus action from xbow expert) while the same fighter will deal 17 damage on average with a revolver, decreasing to 12.75 when you take into account using every 4th action to reload, and increasing again to 13 if we assume the active reload feat, 10 Str, and nothing is increasing the damage of the character's unarmed strike. Jumping ahead to 11th level and assuming the fighter has now boosted their Dex all the way to 20, we get an average 34 damage from the hand crossbow with xbow expert, and an average of 21.333... damage from the revolver with active reload. I didn't bother to crunch the numbers for 20th level but I imagine the damage scaling is similar. I understand the knee-jerk reaction upon seeing the d10 damage die (it was the same reaction I had at first), but upon crunching the numbers, I believe this weapon is well within the bounds of what can be considered "balanced." — Geodude (talk | contribs | email) . . 13:45, 28 February 2019 (MST)
- Yeah, the crossbow mastery feat. That lets you freely ignore the loading property on hand crossbows, but does not let you ignore the reload on firearms. At level 5, a Fighter specializing in Crossbows would have taken that feat by now so that they don't lose out on Extra Attack while using a crossbow. There's no equivalent to Crossbow Mastery for firearms, but if we're comparing for balance then we should find a similar trait as comparing one weapon to a different weapon + a feat would also be an inaccurate comparison. Varkarrus (talk) 13:50, 28 February 2019 (MST)
- Introducing feats whenever reviewing any article presents many variables. I don't think that it is okay to say a weapon is balanced if you compare it to another weapon and feat for it. The discussion becomes very hypothetical. Even if the idea is entertained to compare that way, this weapon is then underbalanced in my opinion since the feat gives more benefits like no disadvantage in melee. Or we revisit my idea that why wouldn't someone carry 6 of these to ignore the reloading? Again, that's hypothetical and subjective which I think should be avoided. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:49, 1 March 2019 (MST)
Support - Vark’s response shatter my concerns. I am more upset I can’t TWF with ranged weapons though! ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 15:58, 20 February 2019 (MST)
Support. I have no problems with this page. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:16, 22 February 2019 (MST)
- The oppose comments make a lot of sense. --Green Dragon (talk) 07:57, 21 September 2019 (MDT)
Support. Per my response to BigShotFancyMan. — Geodude 
(talk | contribs | email) . . 13:45, 28 February 2019 (MST)
Oppose. I don't think this sufficiently explains the difference between this and a modern revolver. I get that mechanically it allows someone to use a revolver in a balanced way compared to the other PHB weapons, as though it were a reflavoured repeating crossbow. But what exactly makes this not modern (or even renaissance) narratively and in terms of its technology? (e.g. gunpowder, rifling, cartridges, hammer). It should also go on to explain what ammunition this uses. Marasmusine (talk) 06:34, 30 May 2019 (MDT)
Oppose. While this content is good and balanced, Quality Article requires content be "suitable to be dropped into most campaigns." Even a gun perfectly designed for a fantasy setting is still a gun, and I think most D&D campaigns prefer not to have guns at all. - Guy 10:27, 2 June 2019 (MDT)
Oppose. As I've outlined above and Guy makes a good point. ~ BigShotFancyMan 13:33, 2 July 2019 (MDT)
Oppose. The issue I see it that this weapon is that power-wise, it is better than the power of hand xbows with the XBow Expert feat since you are not required to take a feat(which are optional rules a DM could not allow you to take) to allow you to fire this weapon multiple times and even as a bonus action, it deals 2 damage on average than the hand crossbow, and the downside of the weapon could easily be skirted around with by just owning multiple of these. A gun can also not be dropped into most campaigns without a decent amount of work being done by the DM to explain where this gun came from, plus there is the issue of acquiring gunpowder/bullets, players expecting their to be other guns available besides just a revolver, and likely other issues that may come up with such a weapon's introduction to a campaign.--Blobby383b (talk) 22:39, 20 September 2019 (MDT)