Talk:Pirate (3.5e Class)

Happy TLAPD

So, noticing the creation date, did you add this class here for Talk Like a Pirate Day?  ;) --Oneiros 15:19, 19 September 2006 (MDT)

Did you talk like a pirate that day, Oneiros? Where did you find about about that? It's kinda cool... --Green Dragon 20:20, 20 September 2006 (MDT)

Spelling

Cleaned up a bit of the language and grammar. Will be back to linkify this article. --Calidore Chase 11:01, 8 November 2006 (MST)

You mean make interwiki links, right? --Green Dragon 16:12, 8 November 2006 (MST)

Exactly, I am having way to much fun doing the interwiki links! --Calidore Chase 02:10, 17 November 2006 (MST)

lol... --Green Dragon 10:52, 17 November 2006 (MST)

Do you guys mean "intrawiki links"? --Pwsnafu 18:24, 20 September 2007 (MDT)

Actually both are incorrect. See Help:Interwiki linking. --Green Dragon 23:24, 23 September 2007 (MDT)

Too much rogue, give us more piratey goodness!

Too Much Rogue...

The class, as it is, has too much rogue in it left. What do you need the following for: --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT

Trap Sense

Since when are ships trapped? Have you ever seen a trap in a pirate movie? --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

No, I have not seen a trap in a pirate movie, but I can see cases where pirates might encounter traps, such as a treasure cove with a few pit traps, some rigged treasure chests, or a merchant ship with a couple of traps in the treasure room. And also, barbarians get the trap sense ability, and since when have you seen a trap in a barbarian movie? -Pirate-Sorcerer

Trap Sense is OK, but I just don't see the rationale for Trapfinding. The image of a Pirate that I have sees them not carefully searching for traps, but just dodging out of the way when one gets set off. Leave trapfinding for the Rogue is my advice. MorkaisChosen 06:29, 18 August 2007 (MDT)

I think both trap sense and trapfinding are unneccessary...pirates have subordinates that they can make disarm a trap. Or they can capture someone, and make them set it off, and so on. --Othtim 11:27, 3 October 2007 (MDT)

Pirates do have subordinates, but it is most likely that they will be pirates as well, thus adding the need for trap sense and trapfinding. And also, what if the trap was inside a treasure chest? Then it would be more desirable for a pirate to do it himself, thus adding more need for the pirate to have trap sense and trapfinding. --Pirate-Sorcerer 15:54, 4 October 2007 (MDT)

I disagree. A Rogue can very easily be a pirate, even if she's not a Pirate. Just because one isn't of a Pirate class doesn't mean one isn't of the piracy profession. Classes aren't jobs, they're personalities and skillsets. Pirates don't need Trap Sense or Trapfinding any more than a Ranger or Barbarian. As for the Rogue sneaking money into a pocket, that's sort of what happens anyway, even if we replace the Rogue with a tooled-out Pirate. If anything, you should give Pirates a small bonus to Spot checks so they notice Sleight of Hand like that. -- Cronocke 04:46, 1 January 2008 (MST)

Sneak Attack

If a pirate wants to get you, he attacks you right in the face. No need for silly sneaking around. Throw that garbage over board! --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Actually, pirates fight unfairly. They'll pull out a pistol in the middle of a swordfight, hit you while your back's turned, shoot you when you're inconvenienced, board your ship when it's hit a sandbar or a reef, slit your throat while you're asleep, etc. Sneak attack isn't just sneaking around, it's also striking your enemy when he's off-guard, inconvenienced, flanked, or flat-footed. -Pirate-Sorcerer

I totally agree with your pirate tactics, but I think there are better ways to make that into rules than a sneak attack. When I think about Pirates, I think about Duels, Pirate Captain against Commodore, saber against saber. But Sneak Attack does not help in Duels. I want rules that force the player to fight like a true pirate, not like a stinking ninja!

Basically, my thought is that any rogue can just take a few levels in Profession (sailor) and go pirating. A true pirate should be a unique class and not a half-rogue. If you want a sneak-attacking pirate, take rogue levels! --Mkill 21:32, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Sneak attack can be helpfull in a duel if you feint. I will still keep sneak attack for the pirate, but I have taken your suggestion for a second combat style and made it into a alternate class feature that replaces sneak attack if taken (see below).-Pirate-Sorcerer

Treasure Scent

On the other hand, the Treasure Scent is excellent. Let's be bold and raise that to once per day! --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Necessary Pirating Ability

Next, it's time to add some necessary pirating ability. --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT

Dodge bonus to AC

You don't wear much armor on a ship, so a +1 dodge bonus to AC when unarmored is necessary for survival. --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

I'd scale that with the pirate's level at the same rate of the monk's AC bonus, but have it only apply while on the rolling deck of a ship. —Sledged (talk) 09:06, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Interesting ability, how about I make it as an alternate class feature for the pirate?-Pirate-Sorcerer

No. This definitely doesn't need adding. The Pirate already has Uncanny Dodge and Improved Evasion - now we're increasing his AC naturally, without the use of items? -- Cronocke 04:46, 1 January 2008 (MST)

Natural swim speed

Natural swim speed equal to movement rate, starting at level 10 --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Rope Fighting

Does not lose Dex bonus to AC when climbing ropes or the rig of a ship. --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

How about we make it into a feat instead of a class feature.-Pirate-Sorcerer

Mighty Greed

+1d6 to damage rolls while on the search for treasure --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

How about, just like with rope fighting, we make it into a feat instead of a class feature.-Pirate-Sorcerer

No, it's a core class ability. There are no two types of Pirates, those who can fight on ropes and those who can't. They all can do it! --Mkill 21:32, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Alright then, what level do you suggest I put it at then?-Pirate-Sorcerer

bonus to Profession (sailor)

bonus to Profession (sailor) --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

How big of a bonus? -Pirate-Sorcerer

It should depend on the age level. For a young, ruddy-faced swabbie (18-23), no bonus. For your standard seadog (24-34), one level. For the grizzled old vets of piracy (35-45, because no pirate should be older than that), two levels. --The Archivist 07:56, 20 September 2007 (MDT)

Skill Mastery

Can always take 10 on the following skills: Use Rope, Climb, Swim, Appraise --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Lets make it into either an alternate class feature or a dead level ability. -Pirate-Sorcerer

Proficiency

Proficiency with hooks and wooden legs --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

I think a hook would count as a sickle or a hooked stick that deals piercing damage, and a wooden leg is probally a club. Since clubs, sickles and hooked sticks are simple weapons, the pirate is already proficient with them.-Pirate-Sorcerer

Animal Companion

parrot, monkey or shark animal companion --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Make it an alternate class feature. -Pirate-Sorcerer

Scoundrel's Luck

Reroll one die per day --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Will you take the better of the two rolls, as with the [[Red Mage (DnD Class)|red mage's]] reroll ability, or will you have to take the reroll, even if it's worse, as with the good fortune ability granted by the luck domain? -Pirate-Sorcerer

Second Combat Style

Also, I'd allow for a second combat style, taken at level 5, 11 and 14. --Mkill 08:55, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

I'm somewhat hesitant to allow that, since it might overpower the pirate. -Pirate-Sorcerer

That suggestion was assuming you remove the Sneak Attack. --Mkill 21:28, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Let's make it an alternate class feature then. The pirate gets a second combat style at 5th, 11th, & 14th levels, but he loses sneak attack. How does that sound? -Pirate-Sorcerer

Now that I think of it, you pirate is missing a good Taunt ability. (Use Intimidate to throw the foe off guard) --Mkill 21:32, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

Why does the pirate need a taunt ability? -Pirate-Sorcerer

That's why! Sorry, If you never played that game you're too young and I pity you. --Mkill 05:10, 15 June 2007 (MDT)

Yaaaarrrr. I be old enough to play that game and might I say that it shivers me timbers that ye remember thar game. Pirates be intimidating, lads. Imagining sailing the seven seas and ye be seeing a Jolly Roger on the tide. Why lad, you'd shiver in your timbers with all that piratical nonsense. This captain says keep the taunt: it works for the class ^_^ -- Flession 08:18, 15 June 2007 (MDT)

Interesting, how would taunt translate into game mechanics? Make a successful Intimidate check against an opponent and he is considered flat-footed against your next attack made against him in the next round?-Pirate-Sorcerer

Why not borrow from the Knight class in the PH2? A number of times each day equal to 1/2 your Knight level + your Cha modifier (minimum 1/day) you issue a challenge to one enemy with Int of at least 5, CR of at least your character level -2, and knowledge of any language, and gain a morale bonus to Will saves, attack rolls, and damage rolls. If the target doesn't meet these requirements, a use of the ability is expended without effect. Now just tweak it a bit, and you've got a Pirate Taunt. -- Cronocke 21:32, 22 December 2007 (MST)

Changes

I added "Rig Monkey", he no longer loses his Dex bonus while Climbing. More to come. --Mkill 09:15, 15 June 2007 (MDT)

Okay, looks good. But for next time, ask my permission before adding/changing/removing something from a class I have made.-Pirate-Sorcerer

Sorry, but I have to decline that. This is a Wiki. If you don't want people to alter your stuff, post it in a forum or ask an admin to lock your page. You should try to see this as a community effort. Whatever people change, your work won't be lost as all versions are preserved in the history. --Mkill 22:08, 4 July 2007 (MDT)

Let's see here.

Full BAB, good Fort and Ref, Trap finding, Sneak Attack, Trap Sense, Combat Styles, more random powers, skills and skill points...why bother playing a Rogue, Swashbuckler or any other finesse class? It needs major revisions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.89.4.24 (talk • contribs) 23:33, 7 August 2007 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

I agree. Needs a LOT of nerfing... it's REALLY overpowered.--Gruegirl 12:00, 28 December 2007 (MST)

Rating - 4/10 (obsolete)

This is both a response to the two posts above, and an explanation for my rating. I give this a 4/10 because, while there is a clear and workable idea present, the class created is so very unbalanced that it needs a major overhaul to be remotely playable. I'd say, lose Trap Sense and Trapfinding - those are Rogue-specific abilities and no other class AFAIK has them. Besides, a Spot check can detect most lower DC traps. Perhaps some bonuses while on a ship, or against NPCs with only NPC classes. Combat Styles smack of Ranger, but if you really want to, you can keep them... just weaken them a little, and nix the Weapon Mastery path, as that way lies Fighter-only feats. Similarly, you absolutely need to ditch the good Fort - Pirates don't endure, they avoid and escape. Alignment might want to be "any chaotic", since a lawful person raiding trade ships for loot doesn't really make a lot of sense (to me). d8 HD makes NO sense for this class - it's a sneaky, dexterous swashbuckler, not a semi-tank. d6 would be much more reasonable. Also, the Pirate shouldn't be proficient with all martial weapons - if anything, just the 1-handed, light, or Weapon Finesse-compatible weapons, and all appropriate firearms. Lastly, full BAB? No. Not even with all the things I've taken out. The class on the page right now is so very unbalanced, I'd be remiss if I gave it better than a 4/10. Anyone who'd consider playing as a Fighter or a Rogue could look at this class and see only a few minor tradeoffs for a LOT of massive gains. The Fighter loses heavy and medium armor and gets a d8 HD instead of d10, but keeps his Weapon Focus feat tree, gets an extra good save, gets more skill points, gets the trap skills of a Rogue, gets a weaker Sneak Attack, Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and can charge over rough terrain. The Rogue isn't much worse - a better HD, skills almost as good, better combat abilities, more weapon proficiencies, a second good save, and full BAB, in exchange for a slower Sneak Attack progression? Don't take this as a personal insult - you can make this a good class, you just need to do a LOT of work on it. (Wow, that was long-winded. Whew! And it glitched out when I tried to save it, grr. Might as well add things this time.) -- Cronocke 06:36, 31 December 2007 (MST)

If you would like to, please feel free to implement the changes you mentioned above. --Green Dragon 11:23, 31 December 2007 (MST)

Done, and a few other things that I experimented with at Pirate Fix. -- Cronocke 12:57, 1 January 2008 (MST)

I appreciate the constructive criticism for the pirate, that's one of the reasons I post my homebrew on DnD wiki. However, I did not appreciate my character class being altered without my permission. I am fully aware that this is a wiki, and thus anyone can edit it, but I would still like to be asked before my stuff is messed around with. On the pirate class variant 2 itself, it's interesting, but it does not fit in with what I had originally imagined when I made the class. When I made the pirate base class, I envisioned it as a warrior/fighter type class with some rogue/thief abilities, so I would like the pirate to retain d8 hitdice, full martial weapon proficiency, and maybe full base attack bonus. So could I get some advice on how to balance the pirate within those perimeters? Oh, and on lawful characters raiding trade ships, it can make sense if it fulfills certain criteria (such as if the ships were of an enemy nation and if the character has a letter of marque). So it would be ok to let a pirate be lawful in alignment. --Pirate-Sorcerer 17:34, 1 January 2008 (MST)

I'm sorry to have edited the class before you checked the page - I had assumed you'd have checked in on it by now, (especially with the message I thought I left for you) and seeing as you hadn't, decided to act on Green Dragon's go ahead. I understand that you want the Pirate to be a mix of combat and skill, but keep in mind that the ability to wield all martial weapons includes the ability to wield such things as greataxes, greatswords, and other things one doesn't typically associate with a Pirate. d8 HD isn't really needed, because of all the other abilities you've given - combat styles, Improved Evasion, and Uncanny Dodge more specifically. Neither is the full BAB, because, as a character designed to do well at multiple things, she's not going to excel at either, and a full BAB is excellent combat ability. Lastly, even assuming a Pirate is obeying orders from one government, she's also breaking the laws of a second government, and is still considered a renegade even by the government she's secretly aiding. Ergo, she is at best Neutral, working for one government while undermining another, and more likely Chaotic, acting against all governments. I hope that addresses most of your questions. -- Cronocke 18:18, 1 January 2008 (MST)

I would like to explain why I said it was okay to edit this class. The main reason was that, after many MoI's, Pirate-Sorcerer never responded to the above discussions. This made me think that he had given up on this class. This was reaffirmed in my mind when I checked the class and did not see a Template:Author present. Sometimes users feel like they are done with a class and to state that they just remove Template:Author—I thought that that was the case with this class. Sorry about this whole mess, Pirate-Sorcerer, and I will remember from now on to never give people the "go" to edit any of your material here on D&D Wiki. I hope this is okay with you. --Green Dragon 19:34, 1 January 2008 (MST)

I have undone revision 194362 by Cronocke (Talk). --Green Dragon 20:36, 1 January 2008 (MST)

That's alright Green Dragon, the main reason why the Template:Author did not appear on the pirate class (or any of my base classes) is because when I first added them to the wiki I did not remember seeing it. I will be adding the Template:Author to all of my base classes I have on the wiki to avoid further confusion. --Pirate-Sorcerer 21:21, 1 January 2008 (MST)

Also I would like to direct your attention to some new additions on Template:Author that Sledged has outlined here. --Green Dragon 19:20, 4 January 2008 (MST)

Proper Balance

As for you, Cronocke, the reason why I asked you about things such as full martial weapon proficiency, d8 hitdice, and full base attack bonus is not whether or not they were needed; but if added, whether or not they would be balanced, and if not, what needed to be modified to balance it while still retaining them. For full martial weapon proficiency, I am well aware it will grant the pirate proficiency in weapons not normally associated with the pirate, but so what? The swashbuckler gains proficiency with all martial weapons, which include weapons not normally associated with someone who normally wields light or finesseable weapons. Now, for the pirate class itself, I will restore the pirate's full martial weapon proficiency, d8 hitdice, full base attack bonus, and saves, but gut some class skills and ditch uncanny dodge. The hitdice, base attack bonus, sneak attack and combat style will not change, so please suggest ways to balance the pirate without changing those abilities. --Pirate-Sorcerer 21:21, 1 January 2008 (MST)

Leaving these abilities in place makes the class by its very definition unbalanced. Why would I ever play a Fighter over this class? The only reason to take any levels of Fighter are now for 2+ bonus feats and armor proficiencies, which I don't need anymore anyway - I can just use finessible weapons and Sneak Attacks. Full BAB and full martial weapon proficiencies are for fully martial classes only. Swashbuckler, you'll note, has no Sneak Attack, no Treasure Scent, and only 1 good save. -- Cronocke 22:14, 1 January 2008 (MST)

As for alignment, yes the pirate working for one government will definitely break the laws of the second government, but so will everyone else working for one government during a time of war, even the lawful stupid. Raiding trade ships of an enemy nation can be considered a lawful act if 1) if a nation/government grants you a letter of marque and 2) if trade ships are of a nation that your employer is at war with, because a) a government/nation has granted you a free pass to do so and b) attacking an enemy in a time of war is fulfilling your duty to your nation/government. If you still have a problem with lawful pirates, just call lawful-aligned pirates privateers and be done with it. Oh, and happy 2008 everyone! --Pirate-Sorcerer 21:21, 1 January 2008 (MST)

But the problem here is that this idea only applies in war, and Pirates will almost always continue to attack the enemy nation after the war has ended, just expressly to weaken them and give their homeland more to gain. I suppose it's up to DM fiat whether such a Pirate would be Lawful - myself, I'd say that both these and peacetime spies could never be Lawful Good, and at best, would be Neutral Good or Lawful Neutral. My main problems, though, are with giving this class, as stated above, full BAB, two good saves, full martial weapon proficiency, 6 skill points per level, and so on, and then asking for it to be balanced. Either make it a prestige class, or tone that stuff down. -- Cronocke 22:14, 1 January 2008 (MST)

How about I reduce the base attack bonus down to intermediate, reduce the fortitude save down to either intermediate or poor, and reduce skill points down to 4 per level, will that balance it or will more work be needed? --Pirate-Sorcerer 23:04, 1 January 2008 (MST)

Edit: I have now made those changes, is it okay now? --Pirate-Sorcerer 23:37, 1 January 2008 (MST)

Setting aside the fact that I've never heard of or seen an intermediate save before, yes, this looks passable. Mind if I make the spelling/grammar fixes that were removed in the revert? -- Cronocke 23:49, 1 January 2008 (MST)

You can fix up any grammar and spelling issues in my article, so long as you still keep the basic fluff intact and you don't mess around with the mechanics of the class. In addition, I removed Uncanny Dodge from the pirate back when I was trying to balance it with a full base attack bonus, would it be okay if I added it back to the class or will it be unbalanced? --Pirate-Sorcerer 10:58, 2 January 2008 (MST)

I've made the spelling, grammar, and formatting edits. I would like to mention, however, that part of the reason I edited the class was to correct a front-loading imbalance to it. Specifically, even as a class unto itself, it has far more going on in levels up to 11th than it does beyond that. If you add Uncanny Dodge, you should add it to one of these later levels... And may I also suggest moving other abilities, like Rig Monkey and Improved Evasion, to post-10th levels as well? Also, you might want to add details for epic levels and for DMs interested in integrating this class into their campaigns, as per classes like the Marksman. Lastly... I still don't understand how the class can have lawful members, but arouse distrust in lawful classes, but I won't touch that without your personal approval. -- Cronocke 03:10, 3 January 2008 (MST)

Thanks for the spelling and grammar edits. Now, I did move rig monkey, acrobatic charge, and improved evasion up to later levels after reading your comments. Hopefully the class is less front-loading now. I will come up with the details for epic pirate levels fairly soon. I will rework the fluff regarding lawful classes, hopefully it make more sense. --Pirate-Sorcerer 11:18, 3 January 2008 (MST)

Lawful Means Destroying Order

Of course a pirate is Lawful! In fact its more likely a pirate is lawful than chaotic. Forget privateers, their the chaotic ones. Pirates follow the strict LAW and command of crew and captain democracy. look at your history! The pirates followed their codes and laws more strictly than militaries of the time. To call some one who follows a democracy and captain so tightly chaotic is simply a foolish claim. If thats not enough for you, the pirate can easily be compared to a paladin. a paladin is a holy crusader who actively pursues and fights evil. What if its a peace time? What if there are peaceful good relations with the evil forces or nation? Actively pursuing and fighting those forces would be chaotic to both governments, nations, or forces in question. But the paladin would still be considered lawful because he adheres to the paladin code. Lawfulness is determined as long as the character is lawful to one thing. That person could be completely destructive to government, and order on a global scale, but as long as he/she stays lawful to just that one thing, they are considered lawful. --Colona 2:33, 27 June 2008 (PST)

If you're being sarcastic, my hat is off to you, as that is hilarious. Otherwise, you're completely insane. There is no law of command on a pirate ship, except "shape up or I'll gut you in your sleep". Pirates are not held to any moral code, not in reality, and certainly not in the game rules. There is no democracy aboard a pirate ship, if there is a captain giving orders, and everyone else simply obeying. And even going by your own ruling, if privateers, who obey the orders of their superiors, are chaotic, then why are freelance pirates, who do the same thing on a smaller scale, bastions of axiom and law!? Furthermore, a Paladin who goes rampant and starts raiding and attacking an evil government despite there being peace in the region could be argued as GOOD, though It'd be a stretch but never LAWFUL. To be LAWFUL is to obey LAWS, and a guerilla war does not do this. Your Paladin, by causing chaos and destroying peace and order, is as chaotic as they come, and should have lost his or her powers LONG ago. Being true to yourself does not mean you're lawful, or good. It just means you're true to yourself, whatever alignment you fit in best. And if that makes you unable to continue in a class, grit your teeth and live with it. -- Cronocke 16:14, 18 July 2008 (MDT)

No law of command on a pirate ship? Certainly your completely basing this claim on fairy tales and movies with no grip on the actual history! In reality, no not by a moral code, but a code they are held to! Pirates came into being for selfish reasons, selfishness is evil, not chaotic! They came into being because they wanted a life on ship, but a military ship of the time period would have 100's of men on a ship, while a Pirate ship of the same size would have 50-80, maybe, maybe 100. Now tell me is joining that Pirate ship for chaotic reasons, or selfish reasons, yes maybe that would give you an evil bent, but not a chaotic one! No democracy? If you were joining a Pirate ship to have a life at see but you want the selfishness of saving yourself from joining a military lifestyle, why would a crew let a captain be an all powerful dictator of the ship? Logic alone tells you that such a claim and to do such a thing can not be true and if it were true it'd be the exception to the rule, th contradiction to the rest of history! A crew has more power then one captain, so if they wanted to have a democracy wouldn't they get one? Yes, they would, and they always did. That would make them Lawful Evil, because they are striving and pushing, and fighting for the laws of democracy, but in an evil manner! Privateers, did not Obey the orders of their superiors as you say, no, the way privateers worked is that a government wanted something done. Privateers were a copy of a model of a military ship, and you could get them for a price. So you go to your privateer you say, hey I have something I want done, and well nothing can be traced to me, so just get it done, and don't tell me the details! The privateers need the money, since thats their job, so they say yes! and they get it done, any means necessary. No matter how many laws they break. A Pirate ship is a miny city, with its own laws determined by the crew. If they are broken, the crew itself kills you. The captain only has any more power than any other member during battle. During the battle You follow the commands of the captain, because he was the military officer appointed by you and the rest of the crew. Captains only came into being if they were voted such! In fact the person with the most power on a pirate ship, was the one who wasn't actually a pirate, The Navigator! The Navigator was not a pirate, he was not counted as one of the crew, he did not take part in the fights, and he only got shares, because he was needed aboard, to navigate. The navigator only had power because he had the job to navigate from point A to point B and no one else on board knew any different of the location, so he lead. The crew itself couldn't take any action outside the code, or without the vote of the whole crew. The captain couldn't give any orders, or even be the captain, without the vote of the crew, and he was just as subject to their rules. The navigator lead to wear was voted to be lead. The only time things could be done without a vote is if A) its battle at which point is the only time the captain has command, or B) Someone is working against the code, and if that were so the crew would punish the person for such an action. To have a chaotic pirate under such conditions, which were the norm among pirate ships, is exceedingly difficult. So how could these pirates be chaotic? Please explain this phenomenon! Yes I can see how the would be evil, or neutral with an evil bent, but to say chaotic is folly! if you disagree with the fact that such a person under such conditions would lawful, please explain. --Colona 8:39 PM, 21 July 2008 (PST)

TL;DR. Let's assume you're right. Let's assume that a pirate ship is run by complete democracy, that any given crew member has little to no power except that allowed to him by the entire rest of the crew. Can you not see how this is a chaotic setup? Your captain is at the mercy of his crew. A mutiny can happen at any moment, for any reason. Furthermore, the crew subsists by attacking other ships. Even in the absolute best of cases, this is Neutral Good. It's far more likely to be Chaotic Evil. If you think that such a lifestyle could possibly, possibly, POSSIBLY be lawful, you are insane. Period. End of discussion. -- Cronocke 03:42, 31 July 2008 (MDT)

Hopefully I'm doing this right and sorry If i just messed something up. I just made this account specifically so I could comment on this post as I started to make my own pirate class today and then found this. I think full base attack is ridiculous: It's a pirate not a freakin warrior! Also full martial weapon prof. is too, if you want them to have that then maybe allow them a few of the weapons, or give them like 3 free martial weapon prof. feats or something. As for the Fortitude saves, pirate's have great fortitude I'd bump it back up to full unless you only have it down for balancing reasons. Pirate's have to resist all sorts of bad weather, diseases (like that one where they suck on a lime or something... whatever), if they ever get lost or stuck in a long storm they could run out of food and water and have to resist that as well... If you don't want to increase fortitude since then you could add a class feature where every so often they get a bonus on saves against weather, starvation, and dehydration. --HotterThanIce 02:02, 2 September 2011 (MDT)

Intermediate Fort Save

Instead of the intermediate save, I'd recommend giving it a poor Fort save, and a class feature similar to the swashbuckler's (Complete Warrior) grace ability:

Robust (Ex): At 1st level, a pirate gains a +1 competence bonus on all Fortitude saving throws. This bonus increases to +2 at 10th level, and to +3 at 19th level.

—Sledged (talk) 11:21, 2 January 2008 (MST)

Interesting, sounds similar to the scout's (Complete Adventurer) battle fortitude ability. I'll still keep the pirate's intermediate fortitude save, but you could replace with the ability you made (though I'd call it Sailor's Fortitude instead of Robust). --Pirate-Sorcerer 12:09, 2 January 2008 (MST)

Did you mean to say "you could replace it with ..."? —Sledged (talk) 11:29, 3 January 2008 (MST)

Yes I did, sorry about that. --Pirate-Sorcerer 16:06, 3 January 2008 (MST)

Idea on "Pet Monkey"

i noticed that the ability "pet monkey" has no description. I had some ideas for it. Possibly like a familiar that can give a bonus on Sleight of Hand, or possibly a controllable animal that can be commanded to steal from others with a Sleight of Hand bonus(possibly +8 with +4 dex and 4 ranks) --Jack Bread 04:20, 23 July 2008 (MDT)

I agree, and maybe you should add in some more pirate-related pets like parrots or aquatic creatures like sharks and dolphins.--Galfr 19:50, 30 May 2009 (MDT)

The "pet monkey" had no descriptions because it was not something created by the original author and an undeveloped idea added by an IP. As such, I have removed it, although if you wanted to make an alternate class feature you'd be more than welcome to. As a side note, getting a 'familiar' at 18th level seems kind of redundant. -- Jota 20:10, 30 May 2009 (MDT)

Skill Points

I was very happy to see this class and I've played it for about 10 levels now and I've seen a consistent problem.

The class is supposed to be partially a skill-driven character but having skills be 4+Int mod is pretty low. You have SO many class skills for the character but you dont get that many skill points so you have to either hyper-specialize in a few different skills or you have to spread skills out and be just above bad with many different skills. You dont even really get enough skill points to cover your basic "pirate" skills, you end up with a pirate that cant Use Rope or Bluff because they dont have the skillpoints to fill out that skill.

Because the pirate class relies so much on different skills, I think bumping up the ammount of skill points you get is the best option. At bare minimum, I think you need to have 6+Int mod and that's ABSOLUTE bare minimum. Ideally, I'd say you could be comfortable at 7+ and possibly at 8+ (Dec 12 2010)

Addressing Skill Points which be an ideal situation moreover, utilizing 8+ would be a bit easier for the use of the class. (Vladmere April 11 2020)

Rating

Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because pirates of history and legend were formidable fighters and at high level, this seems a little weak --67.246.164.25 08:53, 19 March 2011 (MDT)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because well, let's face it - this is average descriptive text. Pirates are far more generous with their verbiage and engaging of the language. --67.246.164.25 08:53, 19 March 2011 (MDT)

Formatting - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because there is nothing to really separate this from a fighter or rouge with the right perks and feats. --67.246.164.25 08:53, 19 March 2011 (MDT)

Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it's a great start and good for NPC's if you have a need of sea adventures. --67.246.164.25 08:53, 19 March 2011 (MDT)

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Wording - <<<4>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<Also boring>>> --~~~~

Formatting - <<<3>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3>>> out of 5 because <<<Nice picture, but overall format was lacking>>> --~~~~

Flavor - <<<2>>>/5 I give this class a <<<2>>> out of 5 because <<<Boring, not much here is "pirate" like...>>> --~~~~

Helped me with homework

<!-- !!!REMOVE THIS FIRST LINE OF THIS PAGE BEFORE YOU SAVE!!! (i.e. the "nowiki" tag) --> == Rating == '''Power - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5''' I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --<nowiki>~~~~

Wording - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

Formatting - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

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Rating

Power - <<<2>>>/5 I give this class a <<<2>> out of 5 because <<<it lacks balance. Full BAB with full skill points and sneak attack is a bit much as a base.>>> --~~~~

Wording - <<3 Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3e>>> out of 5 because <<<Understandable but wording could be more standardized>>> --~~~~

Formatting - <<<3>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3>>> out of 5 because <<<acceptable>>> --~~~~

Flavor - <<<2>>>/5 I give this class a <<<2>>> out of 5 because <<<this is a warrior rogue. it has little to do with seafaring piracy.>>> --~~~~

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because It seems well balanced. It is like a more combat-focused rogue, and to balance this you have given it less "skill-monkey" abilites. --~~~~

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because The wording seems pretty good everywhere and nothing struck me as badly written. --~~~~

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Looks good, just missing the epic levels (Is this intentional and it is not supposed to have epic levels?) --~~~~

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 because it had the required flavoring, in all the categories. --~~~~

Rating

Power - 3.5/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

Formatting - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

DELETE THIS LINE Category:Preload In the following statements, replace "X" with your rating for that category (1 to 5). == Rating == '''Balance - 5/5''' I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --<nowiki>~~~~

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --~~~~