Talk:Myrmidon (3.5e Class)

Rating - 8/10

I give this an 8/10 because all in all its a good cross between a fighter and a barbarian. however, i beleive that if a character is proficeint with heave armor and sheilds he isnt entitled to a good ref save and evasion. i beleive this defeats the purpose of heave armor. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alabastor (talk • contribs) 11:05, 21 February 2007 (MST). Please sign your posts.

Rating - 6/10

I give this a 6/10 for three reasons:

1. The d12 HD plus Heavy Armor plus Tower Shields plus Damage Reduction is just too overpowered. Defensively, the Barbarians gets d12 + DR because he doesn't use Heavy Armor (usually), while Fighters get Heavy Armor + Tower Shields because they don't get the raw standing power. You just can't have both.
2. As mentioned above, the Ref saves are meaningless
3. It is approx 18% too powerful by CSS:

Myrmidon CCS Analysis
Basics		Abilities (1st-5th)		Abilities (6th-10th)		Abilities (11th-)
d12 HD	+ 50	Bonus Feat (x2)	+ 16	Damage Reduction	+ 2	Damage Reduction (x3)	+ 3
Weapon Prof	+ 25	Die Hard	+ 4	Bonus Feat (x2)	+ 8	Bonus Feat (x3)	+ 6
Armor Prof	+ 55	Improved Shield Bash	+ 4	Evasion	+ 2	Battlefield Reflexes	+ 1
Skill Points	+ 17	Powerful Grip	+ 4	Vetern	+ 2	Man at Arms (x2)	+ 2
Skills	+ 7	Man at Arms	+ 4	Man at Arms	+ 2	Myrmidon	+ 2 (Powerful)
BAB	+ 25
Saves	+ 12
Total = 191		Total = 32		Total = 16		Total = 14
Grand Total = 253 (+38) Verdict = +38 off from balanced

Suggestions

• Give Team Fighting feat @ Lv1 (NBoF would be proud :) (+4)
• Remove the Bonus Feats @ Lv1 & Lv10 (-8-6)
• Remove Ref saves (meaningless) (-2)
• Remove Tower Shields (only fighters should have them) (-3)
• Change HD to d10 (-20)
• Remove Battlefield Reflexes (this should be a slow class) & Evasion (meaningless in Heavy) (-2-1)

Which gives a class of 215

--Pwsnafu 16:39, 4 March 2007 (MST)

I say go ahead and implement your suggestions - they will make it more balanced. I will remove these two balance ratings once you have completed edited this class. --Green Dragon 23:34, 4 March 2007 (MST)

Remove the Bonus Feats @ Lv1 & Lv10 (-8-6). Arrgh! I realized that a fighter Bonus Feat @ Lv10 is 4 points, not 6. I'll put the changes in and come back later to tinker (I'm currently doing a review of as many base classes as possible).

Update: did the edits (with changes to ability descriptions), and placed in a few internal links, and placed (Ex) symbols. But I forgot to include a summary for the edits (sorry). I couldn't find the page for Die Hard, though. --Pwsnafu 15:49, 5 March 2007 (MST)

Here is Diehard. Looks better already, and I will nullify these ratings. --Green Dragon 19:01, 6 March 2007 (MST)

Rating - 9/10

Rating given later in discussion

I gave the Myrmidon a 7/10 because it needs the following changes to be balanced. Get rid of Damage Reduction because it's cheaper than the Die hard technique and the combination is too devastating, Besides you have heavy armor and can gain Tower Shield Proficiency. Team Fighting could be replaced with Two Weapon Fighting instead to allow more versatility and less dependence on teammates(allowing lone players to use the class). Players should be able to choose between Improved Shield Bash or an alternate fighter bonus feat because some players may not want to focus on shield use (Maybe Power attack or Combat Expertise). Finally the Myrmidon Class Ability should probably be limited to weapons a myrmidon has Weapon Focus for. Maybe you add the Sense Motive skill because of a sharpened sixth sense developed on the battlefield.

PS. You could also do the following instead, get rid of heavy armor and give the player the INT bonus that Duelists receive(+1 per level up to the equivalent of the bonus), that way the Myrmidon class can be really versatile in terms of weapon choices and combat styles. Tetsurga 21:08, 30 January 2008

Feel free to balance it. The author of this class is no longer an active contributor. --Green Dragon 21:14, 30 January 2008 (MST)

Well it looks pretty good to me... I fixed your failed links for you... I like the options of whats listed or a bonus feat. Gives the player more choice in their character I would say the balance is at atleast 9 by now--Cerin616, Drew 19:46, 31 January 2008 (MST)

Thanks---Tetsurga 21:13, 31 January 2008 (MST)

(Just like the Bow Master)—After looking at this it seems just a means for feats. Almost all the class features of this deal with feats, save Battlefield Reflexes and Powerful Grip. To improve this I would recommend just removing class features that just give feats (the character can select these on their own time) and replace them with something truly original. --Green Dragon 12:28, 4 February 2008 (MST)

This rating has been nullified with the implementation of the new Rating System. --Green Dragon 22:45, 20 February 2008 (MST)

Rating

Formatting - 4/5: I give this a 4 out of 5 on formatting because it uses an old style table (see the preload for the modern table), does not have enough links to the SRD, and does not have any links to the class features from the table. --Green Dragon 00:54, 24 February 2008 (MST)

Idea

Hey I think the skill Knowledge (Geography) should be in this class, because it talks about how they adventure an have been all over. I MoI'ed Tetsurga & Green Dragon, because I didn't know if Tetsurga was active anymore, BTW I adopted the Myrmidon if Tetsurga is still active, and he dosen't want me here he can remove me I guess...--Kisame93 | Ryan B. 08:16, 26 May 2008 (MDT)

We can share, after all you did actually like the idea well enough to adopt it. I'm just stuck thinking up stuff for the Bowmaster, maybe you can help?.--Tetsurga 15:13, 26 May 2008

LOL, yea I put it in there, thanks for sharing the thread...I'll go check out the bowmaster here in a bit...Gotta go check all my other pages for messages... --Kisame93 | Ryan B. (talk to me) 20:10, 7 June 2008 (MDT)

there is a myrmidon class in this book

AEG Source Mercenaries --Thandur 01:33, October 12, 2008

could you send me a link?--Tetsurga 11:47, 2/10/09

Rating

Power - 1/5 I give this class a 1/5 out of 5 because nothing compares to the amount of damage increase that this version of a fighter gets. It overshadows the fighter. Anybody wishing to be a super tank would obviously choose this class over the fighter. There needs to be some sort of trade-off. Multiplying the damage rolls is especially overly powerful. --76.191.212.70 01:23, 15 June 2009 (MDT)

I'll agree with the multiplying damage rolls, but using a fighter as your baseline comparison is just full of phail. -- Jota 11:36, 17 July 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5/5 out of 5 because the information explaining all the abilities makes sense, although it still fails to justify the overpowered aspect of the class, and it seems that if a myrmidon could achieve such power, a fighter has just as much excuse to gain such powers. --76.191.212.70 01:23, 15 June 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because because the class is a strong fighter when it comes to melee and a little too strong. Some might think it could be perfect, but it might be a little too much. --Deathfire26 09:55, 17 July 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because everything is fine in wording. --Deathfire26 09:55, 17 July 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 3.5/5 I give this class a 3.5 out of 5 because you need to add anything for the epic levels for this class. Another thing is that your abilities should be in the order of when you get them, not alphabetically. --Deathfire26 09:55, 17 July 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because you usually don't see too many that are only for kicking ass and taking names. I really like this class. Try to make it a bit more cooler with the experienced fighter and trained killer in the battlefield . --Deathfire26 09:55, 17 July 2009 (MDT)

Thanks for your input, I re-ordered the Abilities, so it should look a little better, I'll work on some epic levels when I get back from my Yearbook staff party. → Kisame93 | Ryan B. (talk to me) 22:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Personaly, i thought that this class was a reproduction of Fire emblem

And due to such i agree DR, heavy armor and tower shields, and diehard is ridiculous.Give either light armor with the dr and diehard or heavy w/ towershields and no DR and no Diehard.

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it provides a more specialized fighter class without making a class that is too weak or too stronk. --173.245.52.104 14:04, 1 April 2012 (MDT)

Wording - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because the wording was very well done, though not entirely perfect --173.245.52.104 14:04, 1 April 2012 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is formatted perfectly for a class. --173.245.52.104 14:04, 1 April 2012 (MDT)

Flavor - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because it feels like a Fire Emblem Myrmidon class, even if it does not perfectly exemplify what the myrmidon/swordmaster/Trueblade class is all about (which would be a class that specializes in critical hits). --173.245.52.104 14:04, 1 April 2012 (MDT)

Based off of the abilities, I'm pretty sure the class was based more off of the Greek Myrmidons, the warriors of Achilles. He just used generic vegetable oil instead of olive oil flavoring (if that joke caused pain, I apologize). --Salasay Δ 20:22, 28 December 2013 (MST)

Rating

Balance - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because, despite having a better reflex save and more skill per level it is still substantially weaker than a Fighter.

Wording - 5/5

Formatting - 3/5

Flavor - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because not only does the class not match up to the flavor presented, the flavor is over-exaggerated and more generic than a Fighter. Grizzled war veteran. We get it. It's a tired and old concept.

In what way is it substantially weaker than a fighter? Marasmusine (talk) 07:53, 23 January 2014 (MST)

In the same way the Complete Warrior's Samurai is substantially weaker than the SRD Fighter. All it gets are feats, or feat-level abilities, and the ones it has are absolutely awful. Two of its class features are Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Almost all of his other class features are +X damage. It's terrible. A Fighter can not only use his selectable class features (Bonus Feats) to gain greater bonus damage, he can also pick up actually useful abilities with his feats instead of +2 to will saves or Diehard. User: Guest 10:43, 23 January 2014 (EST)

In addition, fighter is a horrible class on it's own. So not only is it weak, it's weaker than what is overall considered a poor example of balance. Which raises questions on how this class got rating saying it's overpowered. --Milo High-Hill (talk) 21:04, 23 January 2014 (MST)