Talk:Khajiit (5e Race)

Where text has been copied from other sources, please can you attribute the authors and/or provide a link, thanks. Marasmusine (talk) 08:55, 27 January 2016 (MST)

Wait... Two moons' dance lets me get off four attacks. I use my attack action to attack with the first claw. Dance lets me make an attack roll for "each arm". The claw is a light weapon, so then I can use two weapon fighting to use a bonus action to repeat this. Marasmusine (talk) 09:13, 27 January 2016 (MST)

What would the formating to say Two Moon's Dance does not stack with Two Weapon Fighting?

Also there is a link to my source for More at the end of the page. What is the proper format for source links?

Why not just let the race use the existing rules for two weapon fighting?

Alternatively, say "Claw. Your unarmed attacks deal 1d4 slashing damage." (so now a monk khajiit can use their claws with martial arts, which is what you would expect) and then "Two Moons' Dance. When you attack with your claw you can use a bonus action to make an attack with your other claw." Marasmusine (talk) 11:19, 27 January 2016 (MST)

Next, let's look at Hidden Moon. I'm not sure what the function of this is, since a character can always make an unarmed strike anyway? Marasmusine (talk) 11:22, 27 January 2016 (MST)

Thank you for the sugestions that works as I intended, my current main character is a Khajiit Monk btw.

As for Hidden Moon, this feature is purely present for flavor as mechanically is is identicaly to using one's fist.

If you have any other comments I would love to hear them as well.

Sure, I'll take a closer look later. At a glance, it looks okay. Marasmusine (talk) 12:03, 27 January 2016 (MST)

Holy doody, this is a truckload of stuff. ...Dude, it's one race. Why are there eight subraces, and why are they actually only two but with random, wildly-different stat boosts? D&D isn't Elder Scrolls; every single race is not equally suited for every single possible playstyle, nor are they meant to be. Also, you make a weapon (natural or not) dual-wield-able by giving it the Light property, and you let people use Dexterity for attacks with it by giving it the Finesse property. :/ If I may be forgiven for rudeness, have you made a 5th edition character before? Knowlessman (talk) 22:23, 13 March 2016 (MDT)

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I understand your concern reguarding the race, the wide variety in the sub-races is for the flavor of the Khajiit race and felt compelled to demonstrait this flavor mechanically with stats in addition to size and shape discriptors.

On the subject of the claws, again they come from a flavor aspect and I understand they are quite powerful as initial weapons. However, every DM should review homebrew material and as the right to nerf any feature that they feel is too strong, or counterballence it. Examples of this could be ruleing that they grant resistance to targets who are heavily armored or in a campagin where weapon enchantments are commen the calws cannot be enchanted due to their unique organic nature. Also know that the increased number of attacks may just mean the encounters should be slightly harder.

I have played/seen this race in three different campagins with a total of four characters, Two monks, one druid, and one Barbarian. The druid rarely used her claws, primaraly sticking to her bow and spells. The barbarian as a Sench was limited to the claws and primaraly focused on grappeling enemies. The monks often attracted a high amount of attention with their number of attacts which left making death saving throws on multiple occasions.

To 2602:306:ce16:7ac0:9ed:a20c:8bd2:9381, while I feel your contribution of "Due to their animal shaped head and feet, most cannot nor need not to wear silly human helmets and shoes" is not incorrect, or at least for some breeds, it is assumed those Khajiit would wear Khajiiti clothing instead and most Khajiit can wear human gear just fine. AS for "Those that can, take a penalty to listen/spot checks as well as acrobatic/athletic/jump/stealth checks", based on the previous point this feels unnecessary.

The goal here is to have races that DMs and players can drop into their campaign knowing they are balanced. Make it balanced and then the DM/Player can increase its power if they want to. Not make it overpowered and then expect every DM to spot the problem. Some DMs aren't as experienced and might be surprised (possibly fustrated) when the player suddenly busts out 8 attacks at 5th level. Marasmusine (talk) 14:10, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

Attacks and Gear

• Attacks: I get what Marasmusine is saying on number of attacks...I will however say, "Has he ever wrestled with a cat with claws?" I have and i have the scars to prove it. What they can do in those '6 combat seconds/round' is WAY OP to us with no natural protection. biting, and raking with their back legs 3-4 times while digging in with their first two...Just makes me glad they werent any bigger. Now this is considering if the cat/or Khajiit was on his back or had leaped up on their prey. Now i have understood many cats, and unless they are going all out as mentioned above, they are SLOW to attack, giving a swat here or there, as if crippling to slow down their prey or to decide if the 'prey' is prey at all giving swats to let it know it means business. When they have decided it IS prey, they go for the neck bite. This is what i can agree with Marasmusine about too many attacks while standing. Thats just beserkoid, unless they are level 18-20, then thats fine.

• Gear: Elderscrolls III; More realistic than anything that followed after. Didnt like beast races after III. I liked the idea even if it was a tad annoying. I say keep the restriction to the more feral races. If your feline is pug nosed then you can wear a helmat, but you still have cat feet, no boots for you. You dont need boots, you got better natural boots than humans....You really dont need a helm either, you got whiskers and great sight and ears...why screw that up with a helm?

McAlester Gamerz Customer (talk) 10:54, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

Khajiit 5e Race

Saw your comment on how two moons dance can be used to make 8 attacks in a turn, this is not the intention. Would this wording be better?

"When you take the attack action and make an attack with your Claw, you can attack with your other hand's Claw as part of the same attack. You must make separate attack and damage rolls."

The intention is 5 (6 by spending ki) attacks max, (I guess fighter/monks could get 7-8) but they do each require separate attack rolls. Without homebrew this also means the character is choosing to not use a magic weapon, so there is at least on draw back. Zero1323 (talk) 11:50, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

The solution is to use the wording I suggested on the talk page, and have the extra attack use a bonus action - as though you were wielding two light weapons.

Magic weapons aren't a given in 5e. It's not like 4e where all the progression assumes that you will have a magic weapon, armor and accessory. Marasmusine (talk) 10:12, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

The whole point of Two Moons is fighting with both arms and restricting the second arm to a single bonus action is flavor breaking with classes that get more than one attack and classes that have better things to do like Rogues and cunning action. The specification of attack action fixes a major loop hole, in my play group my Khjiit monk does make 4-5 attacks per round, saving ki for Patient defense or Step of the Wind. I am often out done by the Fighter and Sorcerer when it comes to damage output. Id you feel something needs to be changed I would rather have the attack with the second claw be made at disadvantage. Zero1323 (talk) 3:48, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

It is significantly better with it triggered on Attack Action, rather than attack. I still need to think about it, as it's like having an Extra Attack at 1st level that stacks with future extra attacks. But you can remove the needsbalance template for now. Marasmusine (talk) 14:17, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

Origin

Who was the original poster of this race? McAlester Gamerz Customer (talk) 18:57, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

That would be me (Zero1323). I may not have made an accout at the time of originaly creating it.

--Zero1323 (talk) 18:59, 2 May 2016 (MDT)

Request permission to make the khajiit's unarmed strike a light weapon and simplify and resolve this whole thing already. We can rename the Claw feature Two Moons' Dance if you want; I just want this to make a bit more sense. Knowlessman (talk) 12:23, 3 May 2016 (MDT)

Things I would like to see

Sub races, feral or wild based accurately on actual species. Now that, would be an awesome collection to have. I would DL the page for my own use and have an entire section for that alone. (I have a cat humanoid type also, however they are very retro from like the 80's and that style i have kept. They are weaker than most cat races seen here and are equivalent to humans in most aspects and in some cases, much weaker... Great history and such by the way and quite unique, never seen that story yet nor this exact race to this day.)

A prior discussion changed the claws from a light weapon with finesse into the current unarmed variant. Sage Advice has this comment on the Monk class. "Does the Martial Arts feature turn monk weapons and unarmed strikes into finesse weapons? Nope. The feature grants a benefit that is similar to the finesse property, but the feature doesn’t confer that property. It would say so if it did." and further explains this decision was made to avoid enabling unintended interaction with later content. So the claws should keep being an upgrade to unarmed with pesudo finesse.

You made a good point that the claws should not have the slashing or piercing versatility.

Lastly, the Khajiit are not a feral race. Rather their culture is closer to that of precolonial India mixed with that of gypsies. If you want a feral feature I'd recommend gaining it through a background.

Yeah i am the type that leans to wild untames. McAlester Gamerz Customer (talk) 23:27, 3 May 2016 (MDT)

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If you or a DM has any questions or would like advice reguarding this race, just post it on this page and I will try to respond within the week.