Talk:Juggernaut (5e Class)

Where is the Ever Ready skill?

The Superior Health skill is broken as all get out. They already have the highest hit die and you're wanting to give them double their Con modifier? If it was when rolling hit die to regain HP that'd be fine, but for permanent health when leveling? That's insane.

The Ravager's Agressive Movement seems like it's lacking something, maybe adding: "If while you're moving you ram into a creature your size or smaller, if your shield is bigger than you use it's size, the creature must make a Dextery saving throw, taking 2d6 bludgeoning damage and being knocked prone on a fail save, or dodging your charge and getting an Opportunity attack on you without your shield AC bonus on a successful one". I think something like that you really give more character to the Agressive Movement.

Question.....HOW THE HECK DOES THE SHIELD BASH WORK...it seems like it's just an auto hit, do you roll for it or what someone pls fix this (edit fixed it)

I played a level three Juggernaut (Tortle) last night, had a lot of fun (I was the only defender style class in a party of 6). Without me the group would have been bodied (DM's first time DMing and may have made everything stupid hard). I gotta agree though, the AC without my shield was 18 (DM made the mistake of letting the party buy potions that give 1d4 Constitution so that only made it worse), with my shield it was a solid 23. My HP was at 42 and the entire fight I grappled the big bad guy and pinned him with my Mjolner shield. Shield bash needs to be figured out as well since there isn't a 'stat' for shield. My DM and I agreed on a 1d6 since my shield was made from a Tortle shield (the PC's father). I love this class in concept but in execution he's pretty strong. Aggressive movements seems like it should get a small buff, since some DMs don't use grids and go for a theatre of the mind technique when playing. MrUndy (talk) 16:49, 5 August 2018 (MDT)

So a few questions about the class from my previous session. Can I use the Mjolner shield to pin an enemy? What kind of roll do they need to make to get out of under it? How long does a taunt last? Also I think 1d10 would be fine for hit die (I was using d12 from an earlier build). MrUndy (talk) 21:48, 5 August 2018 (MDT)

I'm DMing a campaign with this and my player got real confused because in the Ravager path, at 3rd level you get something that modifies Shield Bash... which you don't get until level 5. I'm assuming it's the base shield bash that the Ravager path's modification applies to for my campaign. --SenixPrime (talk) 22:04, 20 February 2019 (MST)

Can i just ask why a class that is designed to be heavily armored has to have unarmored defense? It already has access to heavy armor and a shield that can scale with either constitution or proficiency bonus. I just think its unnecessary to have. (talk) 9:08, 14 May 2019 (GMT)

I hope to have helped clear up some things on some features

I have been trying to keep this class as balanced and understandable as possible. Any concerns or suggestions please post here first. I woul like to rebalance the fighting styles to match what someone changed unyielding strength to.

If someone could try the new changes and tell what they think i would appreciate it

Needs a lot of work

I've seen this class playtested and as is, it's a mess. I like the idea behind it, but there is little to no balance compared to the other real classes. I'll include the major tweaks I think will need to be made.

Superior Health - "Starting at 13th level, you now gain advantage on Constitution saves. Additionally, any hit dice used are automatically at the maximum roll." Anytime you take dice rolls out of the equation, its overpowered and less fun in my opinion.

Shield Bash Incredibly overpowered. This scales like a cantrip, so it should be an action, not a bonus acton. It also should not count as an attack action. Being able to do 3 attacks, THEN this as a bonus action is very unbalanced.

Indomitable Resistance - Player characters should not have Legendary Actions, at level 6 no less. This is ridiculous and should be removed. "Starting at 15th level, you gain resistance to non-magical Slashing, Piercing, and Bludgeoning damage." This is a lift from the Barabarian class but without limitations or cost. This should have a cost or limitation to it. I would maybe make it that you can upgrade your shield over time with oils or additions to make it resistent to various types of damage, even elemental types, but only one at a time. [Straight up removed, apparently?]

Shield Bond "Starting at 9th level, you have become the ultimate tank. You can no longer be knocked prone. You also add a +2 to your Armour Class." You already have a shield that adds +3, adding more AC is too much. Also you should not be immune to being prone, I would change it to having advantge on those rolls. [Changed, Shield Bond does something very different now]

Unstoppable Might This is just lifted from the Barbarian class, except removes the "increases your Str and Con by 4 up to 24" to: it is now just 24, no matter what your scores were before. This is overpowered and honestly uncreative. The capstone ability should be related to the shield in some way. Maybe move that AC bonus here instead, or add a way to increase the Party's AC for some time. [Has partially been fixed - this feature now changes Shield Bash to a bonus action]

Agressive Movement Nothing should just give you double damage. Maybe "advantage", and a bonus to the attack roll or damage, but this is silly. [This has been fixed]

Spiked Shield "Additionally, if you hit a creature with a shield bash, after moving at least 20 feet, you have advantage on the damage dealt with the attack." This part is already included in the next feature unlocked in this archetype, Vicious Retaliation.

Improved Indomitable Resistance - This isn't described anywhere in the class despite being in the table. Indomitable Resistance isn't in the table currently, so there's also no feature to improve.

Mjolnir Shield Why would one take The Defender as a subclass if one of the features granted by it is already granted in the core class?

Ideas for Features

Since Indomitable Resistance was removed and Improved Indomitable Resistance probably should be, perhaps a feature expanding upon the idea of a shield on one's back could take its place? Alternatively, perhaps have a subclass/archetype based around it.

Another potential feature is adopting a defensive stance using an action to increase your AC until the start of your next turn, or perhaps imposing disadvantage on an attack. This would most likely be a 6th or 15th level feature, considering that's where Indomitable Resistance was (or its improvement is). Choosing a second Defense Style might also be a good idea for a 15th or 6th level feature, maybe in addition to the previous idea. --Santa (talk) 09:58, 4 May 2020 (MDT)

why did it change to being so bad

i was going to use this class about a month ago and I come back and the class is a lot worse and I want to know why you changed it to be so much worse than it was?

You can access the revision that you prefer, using the History tab on the page. --Green Dragon (talk) 14:38, 8 June 2022 (MDT)

Superior Bond

Starting at 15th level, you have become the ultimate tank. You and creatures of your choice within 5 feet of you gain half cover while you wield your bonded shield.

Additionally, if you did not take the Guardian specialization path, You gain the ability to magically sense the position of the shield in a 60-foot radius, and if your shield is within 30 feet of you, you can use your bonus action to summon it to your hand.

What's the point of taking the Guardian archetype/subclass? Each subclass should have something special that makes it unique and the base class should be that, the base. Taking something from a subclass (even if it's minor) loses some of that uniqueness and flavoring.cIf you are hell bent keeping it this way then upgrade the Guardian and its subclass feature with Superior Bond so that it still benefits them.

(inb4 "just don't run your game with it" I already don't :) I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin. Uniqueness is what makes it a subclass, like DemoKnight or Trolldier in Team Fortress 2.) TruLandragon (talk)

Feel free to edit the class bud! I did a clean up and fixing on the mechanics and wording, trying to change as little as possible from the OP intentions. But if you have ideas, please bring them to this classAnastacio (talk) 20:32, 2 August 2023 (MDT)