Talk:Dead Man's Volley (5e Spell)
XD Why would you do that? This seems like something a couple of bored-out-of-their-brains adventurers would do for kicks, or something you'd make an illegal sport out of. Knowlessman (talk) 22:26, 29 June 2017 (MDT)
- Do what? Why would you cast this spell on an enemy? It has intentionally higher damage than a typical 2nd-level spell. High risk, high reward. It also grants a sort of "coup de grace" to a spellcaster who normally doesn't have much capability to more drastically punish a foe that is unable to make Dex saves.
- Why would you cast it on an ally? The use is very situational, but it could be used to increase the range of the spell and to reach around cover, among other more niche uses.
- At the end of the day, it is based on a spell used throughout the Legend of Zelda series only by antagonists, and perhaps this D&D equivalent serves to be most interesting when cast by an antagonist as opposed to a player-character. - Guy (talk) 22:45, 29 June 2017 (MDT)
- All good points, it's just... I would expect this to be interpreted as more an ability of Link or his equipment than an intended feature of Ganon's spells. It's just hilariously counter-intuitive, niche uses aside. Knowlessman (talk) 13:51, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
- As for "an ability of Link," this spell is used in almost identical forms by Ganondorf, Phantom Ganon, Aghanim, the Cubus Sisters, Vaati, and several other enemies across several games. It can be reflected by any sword, several weapons, by a glass bottle, by a bug-catching net, among several other items Link can wield in these various games. Ganondorf and the Cubus Sisters can even reflect it with their bare hands. Not only can Link and the originator reflect it back and forth, but a given Cubus Sister can reflect it even if she wasn't the origin of the attack. Meanwhile Link can't reflect the vast majority of similar projectiles that are sent his way, even in the numerous games that happen to also feature a boss with a spell like this. (This is all assuming it's the same Link with the same equipment across all these games, even though canonically most Links are unrelated individuals.) Considering all this, I don't see how this is supposed to be a property of every Link or all the different gear each one would have. - Guy (talk) 17:26, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
- To be more accurate to canon, it could be something like: "If the target succeeds on its saving throw, it takes no damage. If the target succeeds on its saving throw by 5 or more, it not only takes no damage, but it can gain control of the spell if it so chooses." That distinction seems like it would only complicate things, and feels more like a 3e-ism than something I would expect from a 5e spell. Maybe it should be added, though. I'm unsure. - Guy (talk) 17:29, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
- Nah, that'd near about remove the incentive to lob it at allies. Knowlessman (talk) 20:07, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
- To be more accurate to canon, it could be something like: "If the target succeeds on its saving throw, it takes no damage. If the target succeeds on its saving throw by 5 or more, it not only takes no damage, but it can gain control of the spell if it so chooses." That distinction seems like it would only complicate things, and feels more like a 3e-ism than something I would expect from a 5e spell. Maybe it should be added, though. I'm unsure. - Guy (talk) 17:29, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
What do you mean "high risk, high reward"? There doesn't seem to be any benefit to giving an enemy control of the volley. I would always choose not to give it advantage on the saving throw. Help me understand. Marasmusine (talk) 14:36, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
- eeeh, I think I get it, your supposed to pass it to allies? The benefit only seems to be positional. Could you do something like start the damage off lower, but increase it each time it's passed? Marasmusine (talk) 14:53, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
- About high risk, high reward. Let's say you're fighting a big bad. You choose to cast this spell over, say, acid arrow because 22 (4d10) is more hurty than 15 (6d4)—this is the high reward. The high risk is that not only could a successful save deal no damage, but the spell could be bounced back at you. (Ideally I would prefer something like 4d12 for a greater reward, but didn't want someone to flag it as being overpowered. This is the same reason I didn't opt for "increase damage and/or DC each time it's passed," even though I would prefer that as well.) You could give advantage on the saving throw to the big bad if it understands you, but you don't of course. As you said, there is no benefit to that. That isn't the point.
- Being able to give advantage on the saving throw was intended to only be a minor and unique feature of this spell, not the main purpose of its use. Since the target can deflect it, I could see PCs wanting to cast this spell on an ally to deflect it either for brutal fun or for niche practicality. If they coordinated timing (with "1, 2, 3, Go" or whatever), it should be easier to deflect, since deflecting it is intended to be a matter of timing. That's what "giving advantage" is supposed to represent in this instance. - Guy (talk) 17:26, 30 June 2017 (MDT)
I think I'd summarize this as one of those kinda-joke spells you only get if you're the sort who, for instance, plays a Wild Magic Sorcerer who A: triggers a Surge at basically every opportunity, and B: whose DM has decided that Surges trigger not only on every leveled spell Tides of Chaos allows them to, but on post-spell d20 rolls of 1, 20, and each multiple of 5. (I have summoned three unicorns now, am immune to alcohol for the next in-game month, and am hoping against hope to roll the Resurrection effect so I can stop being a Goblin (was Half-Elf, Volo's came out, WotC said you can switch race to a Volo race if you want, and I took it for the Disengage bonus action)).
TL;DR: This is something you choose for the pure goofiness of it. Knowlessman (talk) 20:15, 30 June 2017 (MDT)