Talk:Bounding Flame (5e Spell)

This spell is a bit over-tuned to be a cantrip. Its most comparable to Spiritual Weapon, and while it does take an action to cast, moves half as fast, and doesn't add spellcasting ability mod to damage, it does have a few upsides over spiritual weapon as well. It still becomes a bonus action after the first turn, it can hit more than one creature per round, and it produces light (not that important, but still).

I think it might be fair to have the Flame require an action every turn to move. Then its more comparable to Create Bonfire, but even then it can still hit multiple creatures when its moved. Maybe have a range of 30 that if the Flame goes beyond it disappears (like Mage Hand)? That or reduce the damage to 1d6. Does anyone else want to weigh in? --Woahluigi (talk) 22:27, 14 September 2024 (MDT)

Having it be an action seems a bit silly to me. At that point casting it again would usually be the more useful action to take, thereby diminishing what makes this cantrip unique.

Reducing the damage to 1d6 feels like a fair compromise to me. The cantrip's effective range is already quite limited; if that was a concern I'd rather limit its movement to 5 feet instead of 10.

When I made this page, create bonfire hadn't released in Xanathar's yet. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - Guy 03:29, 15 September 2024 (MDT)

Well having it be a bonus action allows you to effectively cast twice as many cantrips after the first turn (this plus Fire Bolt for example).

The benefit of not casting it again (while there are situations in which you would want to) if it takes an action would be having the Flame be able to travel further out from you (+10 feet each turn).

If you really want to make using the action to control the flame worth it, you could make the initial summon of the flame only move it 5 feet (which could only affect one creature), but have subsequent actions to control the flame move it 10 feet (potentially affecting two).

With that in mind, my proposed changes are having the flame be an action to control, and having a range on this spell: Self (30 feet) or Self (45 feet) if the initial summon only moves the flame 5 feet. --Woahluigi (talk) 10:14, 15 September 2024 (MDT)

I don't know if the damage should stay 1d6, I honestly prefer some of the other changes that could be made to this spell. --Woahluigi (talk) 17:35, 15 September 2024 (MDT)

That last suggestion sounds to me like an entirely different spell. The short range is meant to be its main limiting factor, similar to how poison spray is (still?) the most damaging official cantrip. To me being short range but mobile are its two defining attributes.
I quite like the spell as it currently is. - Guy 15:34, 16 September 2024 (MDT)

My suggestion for the winding up of the flame before it moves faster was an attempt to respond to your problem where if you make the spell an action, you diminish what makes this cantrip unique (casting it again might become the more useful option).

However the more important point was that once this spell becomes a bonus action, its essential a free 1d6-2d6 fire damage each turn. The only official cantrips that use a bonus action are Magic Stone (5e Spell) and 5e SRD:Shillelagh, which are only actually setting up damage, not doing damage themselves.

You could change nothing other than making the Flame an action to control (and revert the damage to a d8), and this spell becomes totally balanced. --Woahluigi (talk) 10:14, 17 September 2024 (MDT)

If we only did things the way WotC did, we'd never make homebrew.
I disagree with the direction you're taking this spell but I'm not going to stop you from changing it. This discourse is more palatable than most of dandwiki at least. - Guy 13:48, 17 September 2024 (MDT)

No, it wouldn't be right to force my perception of the spell onto the creator. I won't be making any changes to it, although I will be trying it out in an actual campaign at the first opportunity. Maybe once I actually use it with a character, I'll see that I was wrong. --Woahluigi (talk) 23:11, 17 September 2024 (MDT)