Talk:Aarongar (5e Race)

— This article became a featured article! Red Leg Leo (talk) 07:50, 6 May 2020 (MDT)

Featured Article Nomination[edit]

I like the fluff for this race. This race is an ideal candidate for a water-based character, and it is playable like it is now. --Green Dragon (talk) 08:23, 4 September 2019 (MDT)

Comment and Support. Oh wow, I never thought this would get an FA ... The fluff is the strongest point, yep, and if it could become an FA based on that, then yeah, I totally support it. I'm only a tad worried the counterpoint is that this race's traits themselves are not unique enough, if that is an issue.--Yanied (talk) 10:47, 4 September 2019 (MDT)

~~Comment and Oppose.~~ Hello there! 👋 I have seen the nomination in the discord for the aarongar 🦈 and wanted to chek it out, to be a bit more active then I usually would be. So I took a good and long look (around 3 hours) at the lore of this race and evaluated the given content. I would realy like to support the nomination, but I can't in its current state... I didn't look at the mechanics-stuff, because I suck at balancing.

Here is my consturctive critisism + some jokes I built into it, in form of my thought-protocol:

Aarongar Physical description

Their eyes are that of a shark, but have human colored irises. (everything else is fine for me.)

---> Shark eyes dont produce tear fluid. No tear fluid, means dry eyes. Dry eyes are dead eyes. Except they have snake-like eyes, which they don't have.

Except it is the plan that they have to empty like every 15 seconds a cup of salt water over them to moisten their eyes to not end up blind.

Because sharks live normaly in salt water they wouldn't need tear fluid. But these sharks are on land...

We on the other hand don't live in salt water, but do produce tear fluid to moisten our eyes in; which is basicly salt water.

Coincidenc? I don't think so.

Maybe I took this to literal. Good that I'm not a genie.

Aarongar History (condensed)

The aarongar are Shark-human hybrids created by a crazy-daisy-mad wizard. The wizard kidnapped random people from the streats and forcefully combined them with accumulated shark-essences. Many died horribly and the living were cept in very bad conditions. The wizard gave no F's about it and continued doing their thing. The wizard became better in creating their monster-fish-people, which became better in not dying on the spot, but also more monster, which means scarier, more wily and more brutal. The wizard gave no F's about it and continued doing their thing. The aarongar became hundreds at some point in time and killed the lunatic of a wizard in the end. how_could_this_happen_to_me.jpeg The aarongar are instinc driven, blood lusty and feral sharks on legs + arms, with no trace of a remaining human mind, and are a very fruitful race. And so they started to invade the land, in a killing spree. As a reaction, the human kingdoms united to significantly lower the number of the aarongars, because they can't need walking killer-sharks in their christian lands. kill_fire_with_fire.jpeg Aarongars realised the danger, this time not coming from them selfs, and wanted to go back to the shore where they came from. The shore is occupied by their next generations... mistakes_were_made.png They had to use dive on rivers, lakes and swamps to hide form the anti-shark-people-crusade. But the humans were prepared. pikachu_uses_thunder.png And so the shore was once more a save place for every posible anime-beach-episode. The majority of the aarongar died to the human crusade against them. The remainder fled and regrouped like rats in their swamps. Never would their numbers reach so high again, as they now feared detection. hello_darkness_my_old_friend.jpeg

---> So they learned in the hard way: Human = bad; and didn't get the idea that other beings don't like being killed. Like them selfs don't like being killed.

Fits for an instinct driven race. But wait.

How can they come up with birth control, when they are acting on instinct?

For something like that they would need a higher consciousness, but that went out of the window together with their human mind, I would think.

Sharks are animals. Animals are acting on instinct and a bit of live experiance.

Animals don't give a singl F about birthcontrol to not get detected.

An animal mind can't grasp something that abstract like this. It's just beyond them. Like for flat earthers the curve of the world.

This makes no sence to me.

Aarongar Society

Aarongar society is likewise to that of a wildcat. The chieftain has children with the women of the tribe who are healthy and have proven their fertility. Upon reaching their own maturity, the aarongar males participate in a ritual to move to manhood. Each goes through a trial, finally reaching a clearing in the woods, where groups of these boys will fight. The winners will continue to compete, and whoever the winner is, becomes the chieftain's heir. The other boys will be sent from the tribe to fend on their own, sometimes returning with a tribe of their own. They may redeem themselves by proving their use to sustaining the tribe otherwise.

---> Wildcats are loners and only meet for reproduction. Plus, cats don't understand the concept of a past and a possible future.

Cats only "remember" that certen things are good, like food, or bad and need to be avoided, because big ouch for example, but don't get it from when they got this bad experiance.

Cats are completely oblivious to the concept of a future, otherwise they would understand that food, if not eaten, gets bad.

But they only see that it is NOW good and that they have NOW not enough hunger. Later they DO have hunger but the food is NOW bad and they can't grasp why you are mad at them again.

It's not their fault that there is NOW bad food in their food bowl. As if they where doing it on purpose that time moved on. F time.

Sorry... My cat drives me crazy sometimes with her broken food behaviour... Back to the aarongar.

I can't understand how they can have such complex behaviours, when they are acting like bloodthursty movie-sharks on the one side and now also act like lone-hunter wildcats on the other side.

Doesn't make sence to me...

Most aarongar's live in swampy lands. Some they may live in saltwater areas where food is plentiful. They eat smaller fish and animals, and often spend their time hunting. Women are considered lowly in this species, and they spend their time doing chores and caring for the children. The chieftain and his heir will usually sit in their tents and pull political calls, as they have no other peers in power.

---> Now they are living in a patriarchy of some kind too. It doesn't fit to the previous made statements about the race's behaviour... Why would they do anything that goes beyound reproduction or food, like sharks and cats do?

They are hostile creatures, and often do not take kindly to other species coming into their lands. Thus, they are reclusive and have little interaction with other races. They have extreme hate for humans, and often times will just go and attack them if there is a settlement nearby. Many of the aarongar will just study the common chores and fighting, but some are allowed to study healing magic and are even allowed to travel to learn. Their religion is much like that of the drows. They worship Lolth in many cases.

The hierarchy of a typical aarongar tribe goes: chieftain, heir, soldier/healer, priestess, fishers/farmers/guards/tradesmen, peasants, housewives. Roles are often sexually based. Women are rarely given positions of combat or power, save those devoted to worship.

---> They are hostile xenophobe and attack humans on sight when they have the chance to do so.

Now they can study stuff too? 🤔 I thought they are instinc driven, blood thursty sharks with legs and a behaviour like a wildcat.

How are these creaturs even able to develope the thought: "I should learn for my future."

A future that needs them at some point on their study-travels to interact PEACEFULLY with the one species which tried to wipe them out.

I can't imagine a cat to have a god they pray too, and even less a fish having one.

A cat is its own god as we all know.

The conclusion I reach is:

The concept is awesome I think, but there are too many internal contradictions that need attention.

Their lore is talking against it self and doesn't make sence in consequnce. At least for me.

They are brutal, instinct driven sharks on legs; behave like wildcats; and are very xenophobic.

And yet they have a tribe-like & somewhat-complex lifestyle; birthcontrol to avoid detection by humans; and go out into the world to study despite the xenophile-aspect;

their bottomless hatred towars humans which are basicly everywhere; and the fact that their own human consciousness got sharknadoed to oblivion many generations ago

when the very first generation(s) got turnd into the aarongar(s) by the mad wizard.

I also can't imagine that anybody would want to talk to a aarongar, because it is very likely that they just bite someone's head off, because other races are not aarongars.

If the aarongars would even be able to talk in the first place, because sharks don't talk, and they do have the mind of a shark. The mind of a very brutal shark like Jaws from the movie.

So from reading I would think they are a background race for DM's, like the kobolds or the lizardfolk as an example, for random encounters close to shores, rivers and such.

Because they seem to behave like natural evil creatures (+ lawful, neutral or chaotic maybe).

I hope my points were helpful to make the lore even better, to help the race to even more awesomeness. 😁

Websurfer1111 (talk) 19:25, 4 September 2019 (MDT)

Your points are noted. I picked this race up a while ago back when I was still pretty noob at completing stuff, so I mostly used what was already given by the OP and just bridged it. Now that I read your critique, it may be time for a coherent rewrite to be a proper FA-worthy article. About the nitpick you had about human colored irises though, it is PURELY color, not a reconfiguration of their biological eyeballs, so it doesn't deal much with the aspects you bought up regarding keeping an eye wet. The eyes are merely able to have more color ranges, I think is what it means.--Yanied (talk) 07:44, 5 September 2019 (MDT)

I have rewritten the lore accordingly. There was a tidbit on wiliness I had not noticed nor explored, so I capitalized on that to explain their intelligent behaviors. Hopefully these edits are good enough to convince you to change your vote :)--Yanied (talk) 08:21, 5 September 2019 (MDT)

~~Comment and Oppose.~~ Hello Yanied! 👋 I have looked at the changes and created a new thought-protocol. Like bevor, I hope my feedback is helpfull to make this race better and better! :D

But so far I still can't give it a support though... Here is my reasoning:

Squaline

Aarongar are fish humanoids born of experimentation.

They have a pointed shark head and a large dorsal fin.

They have only a thick trunk of a neck which connects to their human-like torso.

They have thick humanoid arms ending with webbed hands Their legs are thick and stumpy and their feet are the thick end of a flipper.

They have only a small bit of a tailbone rather than a tail.

Aarongar bodies are completely covered in smooth sharkskin, with colors ranging from albino, blue, grey and black, and always have white undersides.

Their eyes are that of a shark but have human colored irises.

They also have tongues, unlike a shark.

--Yanied (talk) 07:44, 5 September 2019 (MDT)

About the nitpick you had about human colored irises though, it is PURELY color, not a reconfiguration of their biological eyeballs, so it doesn't deal much with the aspects you bought up regarding keeping an eye wet.

The eyes are merely able to have more color ranges, I think is what it means.

---> The text says Their eyes are that of a shark but have human colored irises.

And not, there eyes mutated and took on the look of shark eyes and kept the iris colores typical for humans.

Which meant for me: Replace human eyes with shark eyes; Replace Shark iris with human iris.

So I came to the thought, shark eyes are not suited for a life on land. Their eyes are going to dry out and take masive damage until they are either blind or find some water.

For me, as a reader, is it not clear what exactly the transfomation did to the test subjects, as it is for the writer.

My only option is it to take what I get presented literally.

At least that's how I interpret what I read, though...

Wording is tricky.

Out Of Madness

The aarongar are a race of fish-human hybrids created by a wizard diseased with madness.

Combining human subjects with forcefully accumulated shark essences, the wizard conducted many a painful experiment on poor vagabonds kidnapped off the street for his own maddened amusement.

He was honestly quite successful and turned many a poor sap into a weird monstrous mix of the two.

Early creations did not live long, however, and many died from the conditions they were kept in.

This did not bother the madman, as he simply continued to create more, with accumulating success.

These experiments were carried on long even after the wizard died, as his works found willing ears within the reaches of dark circles.

Disciples decided these creatures would be perfect enslaved soldiers for their dark armies.

---> Created by madness and were continued to be war slaves. Just a side note for my self.

As a result of the experimentation taking a militaristic turn, Later aarongar grew more and more fearsome, as well as wily.

This should have been a clear warning sign, but the wizards, instead of destroying this monstrosity, continued to create them, even making so many that they would number well in the hundreds.

Their minds were not so enslaved as the wizards had thought, for their wiliness helped them to appear servile, when in fact they plotted to escape this hell of an origin.

With their numbers, they rose and slaughtered their masters in one fell coordinated swoop.

---> I wonder if the cultist were humans...

Free, they broke out of the arcane laboratories which held them and spilled forth into the world like a newborn scourge.

The original mad wizard rumoredly planned this as a lasting curse on the world, having broken so many lives to create these creatures.

They would continue to mindlessly procreate and spread their numbers, having just the beastal instinct to do so.

Their human selves, those poor wretches of guinea pigs, were supposedly gone, washed away by the bloodlust and feral nature of the shark.

---> So, they are now instinct driven, fruitful murder-machine-sharks on legs with maybe a conciousness hidden very deep within.

And smart enough to trick a bunch of mad & evil apprentice wizards that wanted to rule over the world.

clever_girl.png

The aarongar spread and sowed and reaped their seed crop many a time and their population swelled.

People fled at the sight of this newfound monstrosity and initially could not combat it appropriately.

---> Aarongars showed up and People died and had probles defending them selfs against the mindlessly raging aarongars. Just a side note for my self.

This came as an alarm to many human kingdoms, who saw how these creatures were quite vicious and rabid.

Thus, many kings and generals put their heads together and allied to staunch the threat.

They launched an all-out crusade against the hordes.

Aarongar, while capable on land, fare far lesser than they would in water, their main element.

The wizard had originally kept his creations housed by the shores, but their population had pushed them inland, hopping along bodies of rivers and swamps.

Outside of these encampments, they were slaughtered in droves.

They were no match for the lightning magic which human wizards often used to destroy their grotto nurseries, as well as drive them out of the waters.

They were cut off from the sea and pincered on land.

A majority of aarongar died to the human crusade against them, the remainder fleeing and regrouping like rats in their swamps.

It is believed this threat of extinction brought their wiliness once more to the surface from the muck of instinct in their scarred minds, the same wiliness which saved them from eternal slavery.

As such, they came to realize their strength did not lie wholly in wanton numbers, but with control of it.

They hide now, in smaller numbers, keeping to themselves, lest they arouse detection.

---> What is if they would still behave mostly like their former selfs, but have huge struggles to keep the aggressive shark-nature in line.

Like some sort of battle frenzy.

And smelling blood makes it harder to keep it cool or calm down at all.

And their "pray" runing away in panic.

Maby the first generations where deeply disturbed, because of the hellhole they where kept in for so long.

Like don't-look-at-me-traumatized and on the brink of snapping.

Not a good combination with random people that have a walk on the shore.

Maby they make a spiritual thing out of it as a form of dealing with it.

And there it just came to my mind: Arrongars practicing in yoga. XD

An Evolution Most aarongar live in swampy lands. Some may live in saltwater areas where food is plentiful. They eat smaller fish and animals, and often spend their time hunting in packs. Aarongar society is likewise to that of a primitive tribe. They originally functioned like apes, with the alpha male simply procreating with all the woman. However, the need to organize against impending destruction changed this, forcing them to evolve into a more civilized society where the roles for survival came to be divided. The hierarchy of a typical aarongar tribe goes: chieftain, heir, soldier/healer, priestess, fishers/farmers/guards/tradesmen, peasants, housewives. Roles are often based on sex.

---> So... is this pressure of extinction keeping them from falling back to instinct murder-behaviour?

Or did this flip a switch for their race?

The chieftain has children with the women of the tribe who are healthy and have proven their fertility. Upon reaching their own maturity, the aarongar males participate in a ritual to move to manhood. Each goes through a trial, finally reaching a clearing in the woods, where groups of these boys will fight. The winners will continue to compete until only one is left standing, and whoever the winner is, becomes the chieftain's heir. The chieftain and his heir will usually sit in their tents and pull political calls, as they have no other peers in power. The other boys will be sent from the tribe to fend on their own, sometimes returning with a tribe of their own. They may redeem themselves by proving their use to sustaining the tribe otherwise.

Women are considered lowly in this species, and they spend their time doing chores and caring for the children, and of course, reproduction. They are rarely given positions of combat or power, save those devoted to worship. Their religion is much like that of the drows, and they worship Lolth in many cases.

---> Lolth, the lady of Spiders. A chaotic evil lesser deity, residing in the Demonweb Pits of the Abyss plane. Just a side note for my self.

Females are, however, not barred from areas of study, which is relatively new to aarongar, having only recently shed their pure beastal mindsets. Many of the aarongar will just study the common chores and fighting. Some are allowed to study healing magic and are even allowed to travel to learn. It is becoming increasingly accepted to aarongar that their wiliness rivals their instinct in the roles of survival. They thus seek to mimic more successful races and utilize the knowledge for themselves.

---> The more intresting question is, are other races willing to let them studdy their knowledge?

Did the aarongar prove to their inviroment, that they have indeed changed?

That they are no longer mindless killing machines?

Because it reads like, they just disappeared at some point while the crusade happend, and now some years later single specimen pop up and start to ask for knowlede.

Except they get the chance to ask and are not killed on sight, due to anti-aarongar-messurements that are probably still in force.

It's weird.

What is if there are bounties hung out for every aarongar head you bring?

How did the aarongar show, that they are now somewhat trustworthy?

I think the last thing the kingdomes want is a horde of walking killer-sharks, that now also can use devestating magic.

the_horror.jpeg

Drowic Religion It is believed that many aarongar driven inland had fled to the dark pools within the caverns of the Underdark. There, they came in contact with the drow, who indoctrinated many of them into their cult of Lolth. Aarongar females found it favorable to be given the position of her clerics, which were solely female. The general population of aarongar found the chaotic evil goddess appealing, with her revelry of chaos and pandemonium. Her ideas like culling of the weak, and avoiding complacency, strongly resonated with the more animalistic side of the aarongar, while her ability to sow chaos and manipulate people appealed to their wily side. After many left the Underdark for the swamps above, they took this religion with them, though some have changed it to be distinct from drow practices.

--->That does mean, that the large majority of the aarongar is evil natured, right?

If yes, even less reason to let them study.

Scarred Experiments They are mainly hostile creatures, and often do not take kindly to other species coming into their lands. Thus, they are reclusive and have little interaction with other races. They have extreme hate for humans, and often times will just go and attack them if there is a settlement nearby. This attitude follows them about even if they choose to travel and learn out of necessity. However, they show remarkable adaptability when push comes to shove, like when they had to escape slavery, or hide from impending extinction. When the chips are down, aarongar show their wilier sides and repress their instinct, which can make them seem facetious. However, this is what lets them adapt to disagreeable situations and learn and grow.

---> Wait... they have "lands"? How can they have lands, when they don't want to be discovered?

And attacking the traspassers is the worst you can do, as long they didn't see anything.

At some point it will be noticed that there are people dissapearing, and than ther will scouts be dissapearing. Followed by searchpartys or posses getting hurt or not coming back.

And then heavily garded investigators come. And what will they find in the end? Aarongars.

I hear hunting season for aarongars.

And it goes so far that the aarongars just go and attack random human villages? What is, if just one human survives and manages to escape?

They are going to report to their main city, that their village got destroied, by aarongars. Merchants and travelers too will spread the news that village XYZ got destroyed and we are back at the investigators showing up.

And so it is over with staying hiden.

Now the area around the village is known to have an arrongar tribe near.

I hear more hunting season.

And they might also start an investigation on the destroyed houses and find aarongar typical traces, that can be used to determine the cause of other destroyed villages.

And rangers are going to trace them down. Leading a whole extermination army towards their tribs.

Even more hunting season.

If I would be one of the kings, I would higher the bounties per aarongar head or even double it.

This can't be ignored.

--->This attitude follows them about even if they choose to travel and learn out of necessity!?

What reason do other races seriously have to not kill an aarongar on the spot? Especially humans.

This race is at its lowest regarding to sympathy from others towards them and does nothing to change this, but makes it worse.

Aarongar Traits Alignment. Aarongar lean strongly towards the law and neutrality.

---> They are praying to chaotic evil lesser god. I'm realy not sure, if it does make sence that they are tending towards lawful and neutral as a race... Just a guess.

The 2nd conclusion I reach is:

---> The tribe life is now belivable. Big improvement on that part! :D

But don't forget.

Their very first appearance, and introduction to every other race, especially to humans (and they will have told their traiding partners),

was that of instinct driven, mindless killing-machines, coming from the sea and spreading like an illness.

And only going almost extinct as a race, was strong enough to let the aarongars kind of get back to their sences.

Now the aarongars keep them selfs hidden in their swamps, to not get killed on sight.

Some time passes. Don't know how much.

Villages and settlements still get occasionally attacked or devestated by aarongars in the meanwhile. Because how dare you humans, to kill us back?! That's illegal!

And now, all of a sudden;👏 there are some individual aarongars showing up;👏 which claim to be on a study journey for magic.👏

Aarongars have been and are still acting evil;👏 by killing everyone that comes to close or just exists;👏 Pray to an evil God;👏 And now they want to learn magic!👏

ringing_all_the_alarm_bells.png

This race is very likely to be marked for death, for their danger potential alone.

The aarongars don't even try to get accepted, but make it worse with their vengeance-attacks.

I realy do not think that other races woult let them learn magic.

This race is about to go extinct at this rate.

Or is about to get pushed back down to the under-fell for good.

Playing this race would be a constant struggle for survival and about not getting killed by like every town watch,

and would force the player to attack their human party members, if they want to do it authentical and follow the lore.

And the only possible starting area for an aarongar would always be their home traib, where they get send out to study magic.

Into a world that wants them dead. Even the friendly NPCs.

More work on the overall behaviour lore of the race is needed.

I'm looking forward to it! 😁

Websurfer1111 (talk) 19:31, 5 September 2019 (MDT)

I mean, in that same vein, you may as well address how drows walk around with their reputation (o 3o). Oh but I do need to clean up that alignment, as I didn't touch the traits part at all this time. And yes, there is a theme running through about treading carefully between the lines of survival in its purest form of instinct (which doesn't work) or learning to adapt and grow smarter about it, which is development of their wily side. The part about being wolf heads does need addressing though. I'll get to it. I like that idea though, of refining the wiliness to be their human nature remnant. As for the physical eye part, I guess for people who need it more spelled out, maybe "eyes with irises colored like a humans" instead? Because I can't see any other way of getting over that problem, and I personally don't see it.--Yanied (talk) 22:54, 5 September 2019 (MDT)

Now that I think about it though, the drowic religion doesn't really add much to the race. I kept it from the OP and I don't think developing it gets this race anywhere, particularly with the worry of this page being too wordy (which is not ok for FAs). I think I'll nix that part out completely.--Yanied (talk) 23:24, 5 September 2019 (MDT)

---> Yanied: "I mean, in that same vein, you may as well address how drows walk around with their reputation (o 3o)."

Okay, I have now looked up what the drows are, because I had no idea what they were. They are dark colored evil elves, living deep underground, the page says.

And some neutral individuals are walking on the surface, because they would get killed in their homes by the others for being "weak".

From the drows is nothing much to hear, except that they are torturing them selfs, and that some of them are fleeing from their caverns, if I can belive this fandome wiki though.

But they don't seem to come up to the surface just to ruin everything just because they can.

So their is little to no reason to act against them, when they just stay in their underground cities and do their own society thing.

They might be evil in personality, but are neutral as a society, because they aren't effecting the other cultures in an active fashion, as it seems. 🤔

But that aside, here is how I came to my decision:

I was imagining a test-world in which like 5 races (without further details) and an established economy just exist.

And suddenly, in the human-lands on a shore, pops up a completely new race out of the ocean and starts to mindlessly attack the common folk.

play_ocean_man.mp3

And this killing machines are becoming more and more and more. Until the crusade happend and the majority of the aarongar got annihilated.

And this led me to the thought, that this event must have had a huge impact on both sides.

Like in your telling, the aarongar somewhat getting back their consciousness.
And the other races got them to know as very dangerous monsters, that will kill you whenever they get the chance to do so.

Then the aarongar disappeared, by hiding in their swamp tribes. But not compleatly, due to scattered but reoccurring attacks everywhere in the land and people are disappearing in certen areas more often then usually.

Plus maybe some sightings of aggressive walking shark-people.

My next thought was, what does that mean in the eyes of the affected races? The aarongars almost swarmed the country and killed everything in their way.

It was so bad, that multiple kingdomes had to unite their military powers, to push the aarongars back.

And they are still out there, attacking people and destroying random villages.

And now single, individal aarongars are showing up on their doorsteps, asking for magic, while still being highly aggressiv and attacking at least humans on the spot.

As a ruler over your land who's function it is to keep your folk and visitors form trading partners safe from harm, would you let one of these creatures walk freely your lands or even enter one of your towns?

How many lifes were lost in the Blood Wave War, the crusade against the aarongar?

It seemd like a reasonable thing to me.

Oh, and I will leave the eye-problem alone in the next analysis. It didn't have an impact on my decision anyways.

I haven't checked out the changes yet when I wrote this here.

Websurfer1111 (talk) 10:38, 6 September 2019 (MDT)

Comment and Support. Ok, I'm done now! 👏