Talk:617 Pages (5e Spell)

I'm not convinced this is balanced.

• This allows a creature of any type up to CR 25 to be "loyal" to you for 1 hour. High level CR monsters can have some complex traits and attacks that have unpredictable effects on the adventure if handed over to a player.
• Self-damage is a poor way to mitigate this, since it can be resisted or immediately healed.
• Player-controlled features should not interact with experience point awards, which are entirely in the purview of the DM. Marasmusine (talk) 12:18, 15 December 2021 (MST)

I get the experience part, as that should probably get removed, but I imagine 25d6 (average 75 damage) won't exactly be easy to get rid of, besides another spellcaster burning another high spell slot to heal this damage, or if the creature summoned can heal significant amounts. If you're this concerned about the CR, potentially it could be lowered to 20, maybe 18. --SwankyPants (talk) 12:31, 15 December 2021 (MST)

I do not believe the spell is even balanced at those CR's. That is besides the point though as negative effects in 5e do not allow you to balance out having more powerful effects, the negative effects are considered null in terms of balance and should generally be avoided. I went into more info on this recently in another conversation you can find here. The highest-level CR creature you can summon using a 9th level spell slot is 9 with conjure elemental and it has a much smaller duration, and you are limited a very small pool of creatures. Also, looking at page 274 of DMG, a CR 20 creature has on average almost double the hit points, double the damage, and usually have more special traits and attacks not meant for pcs as explained by Marasmusine. --Blobby383b (talk) 14:40, 15 December 2021 (MST)

Always assume that the player has some way to mitigate or counteract "sacrificial" spell components. Or, I'll conjure a CR 21 Solar and have it use its healing touch on me once or twice. Marasmusine (talk) 14:56, 16 December 2021 (MST)