Talk:5e Renaissance Weapons

Early Automatic firearms

Maxim Gun (usually tripod-mounted - it's just bad luck what resulted in handheld maxim gun being made 29 years after normal Maxim gun) and bolt-action rifles were invented in 19-th century. Semi-auto rifles also were invented in 19-th century - albeit, they were expensive, and so were used as hunting weapons for nobles. 95.71.91.148 04:58, 28 September 2024 (MDT)

The technological ages are based on those presented on page 268 of the DMG, where powder firearms are labeled Renaissance, and true cartridge firearms are labeled Modern. If I had to give a precise cut off, it would probably be the Industrial Revolution, which would put the 19th century well within modern technology.--Ref3rence (talk) 14:23, 28 September 2024 (MDT)

What year is Renaissance?

You say what Lever Action Rifle (5e Equipment) is not Renaissance. So, that's before 1826? 95.71.85.187 11:22, 11 October 2024 (MDT)

1826 is well within what official D&D material treat as modern. In the DMG (which our use of Renaissance/Modern/Futuristic is drawn from), Renaissance weapons don't use cartridges and are given a gold cost, implying that their technology isn't too far off from the Forgotten Realms' medieval setting. 5e Renaissance Weapons specifically calls out "before the 19th century", which would only be up to 1799, but in general the Industrial Revolution seems to be the cut off.--Ref3rence (talk) 11:44, 11 October 2024 (MDT)

Sincerely, there's a mess of weapons on border between Renaissance and Modern. So i think, it would be better to make more intermediate categories. For example: "Age of Sail" (≈1500 AD), "Early Industrial Revolution"/"Early Enlightenment" (≈1730 AD), "Middle Industrial Revolution"/"Middle Enlightenment" (≈1800 AD), "Late Industrial Revolution"/"Late Enlightenment" (≈1850 AD), Mechanized Age/Early Industrialized (≈1900 AD), Broadcast Age/Middle Industrialized (≈1930 AD), Nuclear Age/Late Industrialized (≈1940 AD), Space Age/Early Modern (≈1970 AD), Early Digital Age/Middle Modern (≈1990 AD), Middle Digital Age/Late Modern (≈2010 AD or 2020 AD), Late Digital Age/Early Futuristic (≈2040 AD; just one tad more advanced than modern tech, or prototype/proposed/indented-but-still-too-expensive-to-be-viable modern things), and then Futuristic of different degrees with strange names. Then, sort it out between those new categories - so there would be less problems of "Where this things belongs?". 95.71.85.187 13:31, 11 October 2024 (MDT)

So, for example: Early 15th and 16th century firearms, like matchlock muskets, would be "Age of Sail". Flintlocks would be "Early Industrial Revolution". Lever Action Rifle and early Bolt-Action Rifles would be "Middle Industrial Revolution". Pump-action firearms are "Late Industrial Revolution". Madsen Machine Gun would be Mechanized Age. Bren LMG would be Broadcast Age. MG42 would be Nuclear Age. RPG-7 would be still Nuclear Age. BGM-71 TOW is Space Age. FGM-148 Javelin is Early Digital Age. Russian T-14 "Armata" is Middle Digital Age. 95.71.85.187 13:55, 11 October 2024 (MDT)

Also, earlier epochs could also be divided. Low-tech would include "Proto-civilization" (≈"Monke throw poop at you!" BC), "Stone Age" (≈about the time when Fire or Stone Tools were invented), Bronze Age (≈3500 BC), Iron Age (≈1300 BC), Medieval Age (≈600 AD), and then Age of Sail (≈1500 AD). Basically, would work for emulation of civilizations or characters what are more backwards than average. However, futuristic weapons would be very hard to sort out in epochs - since it's mishmash of many settings, and each of those had it's own tech progression, tech tree, and estetic - making sorting it out into "Early Future" and "Later Future" difficult and impractical. 95.71.85.187 13:35, 11 October 2024 (MDT)

So, it would be more practical to start with "extra Age-Of-Sail To Near-Future" categories described above - then to "Extra Stone-Age to Age Of Sail", and then to "Different Levels Of Futuristic". 95.71.85.187 13:41, 11 October 2024 (MDT)

I don't think splitting tech into 16+ tiers is a good idea. Such a wealth of pages would cause some navigation issues, since most people aren't going to know which one of 10 barely-separated modern time periods the RPG-7 was invented, they're just looking for a rocket launcher and would have an easier time checking two pages. The core issue, however, is that official material takes precedent, and the official material splits anachronistic it into three categories. Years aren't used for the same reason specific models or non-magical materials aren't used: these are general concepts, not something ultra-specific unless absolutely necessary (Weapon Alternatives (5e Other) is a good example of this design concept). We don't necessarily have perfect implementation of that on this wiki, but that's a problem to fix, not a reason to ignore precedent.

I also disagree that there's a "mess" of edge cases; using the DMG's distinction of powder vs cartridge, the only edge cases that comes to mind are things like old school revolvers, but even then such a thing would use loose powder and thus be Renaissance. Blowing up 5e Weapons into 16+ pages over a handful of edge cases seems like a huge overreaction.--Ref3rence (talk) 18:05, 11 October 2024 (MDT)

Maybe we could make a "Weapon Time Tier" parameter in the weapon template, and we could list the results on this page and other related pages? This would help reduce the navigation through lots of pages, and could be sorted here too. --Green Dragon (talk) 13:12, 17 October 2024 (MDT)