Talk:5e Race Preload

What is the [[Category:<!-Tag-> Tag]] for? People keep on turning it into all kinds of stuff! --Kydo (talk) 15:47, 21 September 2016 (MDT)

I loaned out my Monster Manual, but I believe it is for tags as defined in that book. I know of no official use for this, except maybe "Psionic". I think it would be good if we used it to highlight some "sub-type" traits such as Living Construct. Marasmusine (talk) 15:51, 21 September 2016 (MDT)

We need to clarify it. Some people are turning it into attribution categories, while others are giving each race its own category. It's really getting rather silly, like, "ha-ha wtf" silly. One race had the "alien tag" category, despite not being an alien, or even a sci-fi concept! --Kydo (talk) 18:16, 21 September 2016 (MDT)

I might be necro-posting in response to this, but in the Monster Manual it's equivalent to subtype or race, and is used by all creatures that are humanoid. I personally don't think the "tag" category is necessary on a race page unless there are also creatures of that race (E.g., Gerudo (5e Race) and Gerudo Warrior (5e Creature) would both be in Category:Gerudo Tag.) — Guy (talk | edits) 05:13, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Links to About Races

I think we should link relevant bits of the preload to the About Races page, for convenience. SirSprinkles (talk) 19:04, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

I just realized I never actually responded properly here, but I support this change. To me inline links are always an improvement. - Guy (talk) 19:02, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion: default categories

It's very commonplace for users to ignore or delete the three categories at the bottom of the preload:

[[Category:<!-Size-> Size]]
[[Category:<!-Type-> Type]]
[[Category:<!-Tag-> Tag]]

Considering how often new races are created and how often these three lines get ignored, I believe these three lines should be replaced as follows:

[[Category:Medium Size]] <!-- Replace "Medium" with the race's size if it is not Medium. -->
[[Category:Humanoid Type]] <!-- Replace "Humanoid" with the race's type if it is not humanoid. -->
<!--[[Category:RaceSubtype Tag]]-->

This way even if the lines get ignored, the page is still categorized correctly more often than not. - Guy (talk | edits) 00:41, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

...Alternatively, an administrator could open the page up for editing to non-anonymous users. That way I could just implement these changes, as well as some of those proposed by SirSprinkles, myself. - Guy (talk) 13:53, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Done. --Green Dragon (talk) 18:24, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I've made the changes I suggested, and added a couple brief comments in an effort to prevent problems I've seen several times. Upon editing the page I realized most of what SirSprinkles suggested resides in Template:5e Racial Traits itself, which itself is locked from non-admins, so I guess he will need to take care of that directly. - Guy (talk) 19:02, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Suggested: Default Option Expanded

It's very common for users to write some variation of CON +2 and WIS +1 rather than the "Your {{5a|con}} score increases by 2 and your {{5a|wis}} score increases by 1."

For the same reason that the default categories were ignored, I'd like to request that a default entry is put in the preloader. For example, ability scores may look like this: "Your {{5a|str/dex/con/wis/int/cha}} score increases by 2 and your {{5a|str/dex/con/wis/int/cha}} increases by 1." <!-- Replace "str/dex/con/wis/int/cha" with races ability score increase. -->

I can write up a complete list if you think this is worth the time. ConcealedLight (talk) 08:50, 20 January 2018 (MST)

That was a good idea, thanks. I think that one example is good, since users will change it anyhow. --Green Dragon (talk) 08:52, 22 January 2018 (MST)

Thank you. Hopefully, this will make things easier when reviewing new races. I've also added an entry within the 5e_Race_Design_Guide about referencing. ConcealedLight (talk) 09:10, 22 January 2018 (MST)

I noticed that. My only advice is to make it part of a new section, since its really rather important. --Green Dragon (talk) 09:13, 22 January 2018 (MST)

Will do. ConcealedLight (talk) 12:14, 22 January 2018 (MST)

Minor Correction

I've noticed that there is a single bracket in the preload that shouldn't be there. It's in the suggested characteristics section, "===Suggested Characteristics=== When creating a <race name> character, you can use the following table) of traits". If this could be removed, please. Thanks! --ConcealedLight (talk) 08:19, 18 March 2018 (MDT)

Good job finding this problem. I changed it. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:30, 18 March 2018 (MDT)

Found another one but I'm not sure if this is the right place to report it. If you look at a page that uses the subrace template the full stops at the end of the trait names are not bold unlike the ones in the base race template. This can be seen on these two pages for example: Half-Hag_(5e_Race), Half-Giant_(5e_Race). --ConcealedLight (talk) 06:01, 2 April 2018 (MDT)

Thanks for the information. It is now resolved. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:21, 2 April 2018 (MDT)

Explanation of Change

I came across a page that has existed a decent amount of time and is "stubbed". Reason is "incomplete and see the design guide". I know the preload has "delete this when the race is complete" but editors don't see this and the explanation doesn't help new users. If my edit to the preload is improper, could we develop/discuss a better way to communicate the template was added for simply being a new page? It'd help transparency so that someone like me doesn't see the stub and say, "that's not a reason to be incomplete" and delete it, plus it lets others know its new :) BigShotFancyMan (talk) 14:30, 13 June 2018 (MDT)

I would have made the proposal first before making edits to a site-wide used paged. :^) If we had to vote. I'd be opposed for the current edit. Under the premise that it normally works pretty well and we only rarely have issues where such templates remain on pages unless they really are incomplete. Also, I believe we use a different wording for such things rather than "Fresh Spawn"(discord reference :P) but I don't recall where it is. Something like "Newly Created...". —ConcealedLight (talk) 17:29, 13 June 2018 (MDT)

too bold BigShot, too bold I can’t explain what made it stood out this time vs the year I’ve been looking at {{stub}} templates. Tis unfortunate about terms, “Fresh Spawn” sounded a bit fun and flavorful. Oh, well, I thought it’d help people. No big loss if it’s found to be counterproductive. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 19:48, 13 June 2018 (MDT)

The wording is more ambiguous (spawn, and that no page) then the previous text. The message, meaning to remove the template once its done, is lots clearer. What was the discord word instead of spawn? --Green Dragon (talk) 22:29, 13 June 2018 (MDT)

On discord, we've got a bot that assigns the role "Fresh Spawn" to uses that join so we can ping them and ask what their wiki name is, their system and then assign other roles like "verified user", "5e", "Pathfinder", etc. So, that's what I was referring to :P —ConcealedLight (talk) 22:34, 13 June 2018 (MDT)

The overlap with Discord roles is coincidence. I am use to the term for fresh/new creatures that have been made, much like the pages are made. Classes have the same thing in there preload, minus the "recommendation" to see the Class Design Guide. Something witty like "New Adventurer!" would have been used to add casualness to things. Perhaps, "Fresh Spawn! Most pages are not complete when created but if this page is, please remove this template. If you need help, see the 5e Race Design Guide." would remove the ambiguity? I'm not insistent on "fresh spawn" either, just carried it over from what I've already done. "New Race" or something just as formal/professional is fine. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:05, 14 June 2018 (MDT)

I feel like BSFM's change was a step in the right direction. Unlike the current version, his version helped to explain why the template is there more explicitly, which may not be obvious to new users. It also comes off as a little friendlier. To negate any unintended reference to Discord, perhaps there could be something like, "{{stub|A race page is almost never complete when first created. For guidance, see the [[5e Race Design Guide]].}}" --Guy (talk) 06:33, 15 June 2018 (MDT)

I agree. I think that Guy's wording is the best example so far. --Green Dragon (talk) 08:42, 15 June 2018 (MDT)

I too, think that Guy's wording works very well. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:43, 18 June 2018 (MDT)

Then we're all in agreement! I'll update it now. —ConcealedLight (talk) 08:00, 18 June 2018 (MDT)

Default Random Weight and Height

I think there should be default random weight and height entry and that entry should be the humans, as seen on page 122 of the Players Handbook. As a good amount of races simple use the human specifications anyways and so it can serve as an example for users wishing to use it. Thoughts? —ConcealedLight (talk) 20:59, 4 August 2018 (MDT)

That's a great idea. I'm all for it. Quincy (talk) 21:04, 4 August 2018 (MDT)

I don’t think it is a bad idea. Is there a way to bring users’ attention to it more instead of making a default? If consensus is to just make it default then it’s a moot question. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 21:16, 4 August 2018 (MDT)

5e Race Variant Template?

I've noticed that there is no template for this as seen 5e Race Variants and 5e Race Variant Preload. Would it be possible to have one made similar to Template:5e Racial Traits and then inserted into the preload. I don't mind going through and editing it into the pre-existing pages, there is only like 79 of them. —ConcealedLight (talk) 08:41, 19 August 2018 (MDT)