SRD Talk:Epic Level Basics

Changes from the Original SRD

Class Features

Added (from "Epic Class Progressions" > "Epic Psionic Class Progressions"):

• "For manifesters, manifester level continues to increase after 20th level."
• "a manifester’s power points and "
• "bonus power points " (from "No Epic Bonus Power Progression")
• "at each level do not increase automatically after 20th level."
• "Psionic characters can take the Improved Manifestation feat, which grants them additional power points each time they take the feat." (from "No Epic Bonus Power Progression")
• "a manifester’s "
• "powers known at each level do not increase automatically after 20th level."
• "Epic manifesters can " (from "No Epic Bonus Power Progression")
• "take Epic Expanded Knowledge or Power Knowledge, which give them access to additional powers, and Epic Psionic Focus, which allows manifesters to use more than one metapsionic power each time they expend their psionic focus." (from "No Epic Bonus Power Progression")
• "The powers of psicrystals that are based on the creator’s level continue to increase as their owner gains levels."
• "Bonus feats for epic psionic classes can be chosen from among any epic feats for which the character meets the prerequisites or any psionic, metapsionic, or psionic item creation feat, as normal."

—Sledged (talk) 13:05, 15 February 2007 (MST)

Number of attacks

So there's absolutely no way for a wizard to get four attacks per round, even at 80th level? Maybe I've missed it, but I don't believe I've seen a line that says "your maximum number of attacks per round is four", but I have seen that your number of attacks doesn't increase past what you gain due to your BAB... IMO something they should have put in, but if they didn't I suppose it's probably for good reason. Armond 14:43, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

Don't think so — not with BAB alone anyway. --Green Dragon 20:42, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

That's how it works. A wizard 20/fighter 20 gets only two attacks due to BAB (+10 BAB, +10 EAB), but a fighter 20/wizard 20 gets all four (+20 BAB, +10 EAB). The former, however, may have more (and higher) spell slots because she was able to start taking Improved Spell Capacity sooner. —Sledged (talk) 20:57, 12 April 2007 (MDT)

When you put it that way, it makes sense, but I still kinda don't like it... Well, that's just me, and my opinion is nothing in the face of balance. Armond 01:25, 13 April 2007 (MDT)

Welcome to the club. There's a good deal that I dislike about epic rules; mostly the inconsistency among rule sources and implementations. —Sledged (talk) 08:44, 13 April 2007 (MDT)

The good news is that you can just convince your DM to use different, more intelligent rules. :D Armond 10:30, 13 April 2007 (MDT)

Or just invest some of your huge number of skill points into UMD and get a wand of divine power. There. Now you have the same BAB as a fighter. Of course... If divine power actually works as it is written, your BAB is now equal to your character level (which is impossible otherwise). Epic levels are all about interpretation. --Aarnott 11:25, 13 April 2007 (MDT)

Actually, that's not the only way to increase your BAB at epic levels. Racial HD are not limited by the BAB cap (or the BSB caps). If you look at all the 21+ HD monsters that lack class levels, you'll note their BAB still goes by type (or augmented subtype). So if you're a 20th-level character and you become an infected legendary weretiger, you're BAB will increase instead of your EAB. —Sledged (talk) 11:48, 13 April 2007 (MDT)

That is ridiculous! Then again... Base Attack Bonus rules is the least of worries with brokenness when looking at epic characters. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aarnott (talk • contribs) 11:44, 13 April 2007. Please sign your posts.

So long as the rule about four attacks is in place, BAB shouldn't be *that* huge a worry. Hopefully. Then again, a fighter could really use the extra 10 to his attack bonus... though by level 40 a margin of 10 either way probably isn't too bad... Armond 14:27, 13 April 2007 (MDT)

Spells Per Day

I'd like to check something, the epic rules say your spells per day dont advance after level 20, but the adding a new class thing says you get the spells of new classes. is it that the no new spells per day only apply to your CLASS level (as in after level 20 my fighter 1/wizard 5/eldritch knight 10/spellsword 3 would advance his spells per day if he took 3 levels of eld knight, but after that only advanced his caster level, or would he be stuck with only 1 9th level spell slot.) Zau 18:27, 15 May 2009 (MDT)

Unfortunately, the epic rules were largely written under the context of 20+ levels in a single class. It only applies when your spells per day in a specific class hit the 20th-level mark regardless of your actual character level. (Note: Your caster level can be independent of the level that determines your spells per day. So it can get quite complicated because you have class level, character level, caster level, and "spells per day" [for lack of a better term] level.)

If you are a wizard 5/obscure PrC 10/archmage 5, your spells per day are the same as a 20th-level wizard (provided that obscure PrC grants an increase to your wizard's spells per day at every level). So you have capped out on your spells per day.

However, if you're a wizard 5/fighter 1/eldritch knight 10/archmage 4, your spells per day are the same as an 18th-level wizard. So you can gain two more "spells per day" levels before you're capped out.

For a bit more complication, let's add a second spellcasting class. If you're a wizard 5/cleric 5/mystic theurge 10, your spells per day are that of a 15th-level wizard and a 15th-level cleric. So you can gain five more "spells per day" levels in either class before you cap out. Hitting the cap in one class does not affect the other. If you take five more levels of wizard you've capped out your wizard spells per day, but you can still increase your cleric spells per day even though you're already 25th-(character-)level. —Sledged (talk 21:50, 15 May 2009 (MDT)

Can non-epic characters use epic equipment in 3.5?

I could see a group of 20s taking down a 21 or 22 CR and getting epic stuff. Could they use it?