Talk:Zen Archer (3.5e Class)

Rating - 9/10

Rating 8/10 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kelly (talk • contribs) 2007-12-07 00:32:14.

I will give it a Rating of 9/10. It is a least an 8, comparable to the monk class which it is based off, I see no major flaws. Normally this is an 8, but I'll give it a 9 as it filled a niche I did not see an equal to, the idea of those oriental 'guardians' of spiritual places who defeat demons with their bow (such genre found in Bleach's Quincy, InuYasha, and a few other cases).

This is a first attempt at a rating, hopefully the fact it is in line with others means I am not off the mark. -- Eiji 23:59, 7 December 2007 (MST)

I have made the rating 9/10 since kelly supplied no reason as to why this should be an 8/10. --Green Dragon 21:23, 9 December 2007 (MST)

A couple of Changes

I'd like to suggest a couple of minor changes to this class. Firstly, the weapon proficiencies say that Small Zen Archers are only proficient with Shortbows- that would make sense under 3rd edition rules, but in 3.5, a Small longbow is equivalent to a Medium shortbow anyway. The second change is for the prerequisites for bonus feats- rather than ignoring Dex prerequisites, it might work better by replacing Dex prerequisites with the same value in Wis. MorkaisChosen 07:29, 8 December 2007 (MST)

Valid points. To be honest, looking at it now I don't see a reason why I should make that distinction between small zen archers and medium zen archers since even if they are proficient with any type of bow, they still get the -4 penalty to wielding weapons too large for them when they do. So, I'm going to remove that. I will update the feat prerequisites as well. --Sulacu 10:43, 10 December 2007 (MST)

/Suggested Addition/

Given this class already gives up the increased unarmed damage and flurry of blows of the standard monk, I think this class would benefit from a built in variation of the manyshot feat to replace flurry of blows. Perhaps a similar progression except increasing shots per round.--Jon 16:32, 12 February 2009 (MST)

That would be severely cool.--Raweno (talk) 14:17, 29 November 2012 (MST)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is well balanced with the monk. People can say what they want about the Monk's balance, but this class is properly balanced (even if the monk is underwhelming). --Aarnott 10:19, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 4/5 As always, Sulacu, your work is a pleasure to read. I give this class a 4 out of 5 because

• Ki Shot is a little confusing: "Zen archery and its subsequent special abilities can only be used with shortbows and longbows (not crossbows or other ranged or thrown weapons). Added damage from Zen Archery cannot drop below 0."

• Instead of repeating that monk levels stack for abilities with the same name, just say it once at the start of the class abilities.

• Zen Mastery: "... and becomes ×4" --> no need to say this.

• Empty Body: "... exceed his monk level" --> you mean zen archer level :). --Aarnott 10:19, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because It is missing a couple of the preload elements (also there is a small error in the epic zen archer section). --Aarnott 10:19, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it fits as unique a role as a base class should: generic enough to specialize in various prestiges, focused enough to want to take all 20 levels, and different enough from other base classes. I see this to the monk as the scout is to the rogue. --Aarnott 10:19, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

Unnecessary Change?

An anonymous user made a few changes, improving the rating, and adding, perhaps, one unnecessary change. he writes:
A monk may however multiclass as a zen archer and vice versa, without worrying about this restriction. A monk that takes a level in zen archer may still advance his monk level, and the other way around.
This is already elaborated in the above line:
A zen archer may however multiclass as a monk and vice versa, without worrying about this restriction. A zen archer that takes a level in monk may still advance his zen archer level, and the other way around.
If this were my page, I would simply remove this part of the Edit, and try to more clearly re-word the original line, but I want to leave that up to you.

Rating

Power - <<<3>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3>>> out of 5 because <<<The base attack bonus is to high. The person who wrote this was clearly attempting to make a more powerful archer monk, however while he replaced most of the monk powers with equal zen archer powers, he increased the base attack bonus with no foreseeable sacrifice in another area.>>> —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) . Please sign your posts.

Wording - <<<2>>>/5 I give this class a <<<2>>> out of 5 because <<<The class is basically a bunch of statistics. It lacks flavor and history.>>—The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) . Please sign your posts.

Formatting - <<<2>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<formatting was fine, where present>>> —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) . Please sign your posts.

Flavor - <<<3>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3>>> out of 5 because <<<This class is simply a slightly modified monk. It doesn't contain much original content.>>> —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) . Please sign your posts.