Talk:Way of the Spectral Blade (5e Subclass)

I think some of the abilities here need an ki point cost: I would suggest 1 to empower the blade (Spectral Blade), and maybe make it part of the attack action to empower it? Also, Ghost blade should cost 1 or 2 points, or possibly only come into effect when the blade is empowered? If the latter, it could be allowed multiple times in a turn. Lastly, Psychic Disruption would be a better name for the third level ability, and the 17th level ability could be changed to Devastating Blade to counterbalance that. --HedgehogWraith (talk) 06:40, 17 October 2022 (MDT)

First, thank you for looking at the subclass and giving your feedback, i really appreciate that! I kinda disagree with your first point, about the Spectral Blade feature. Empowering the blade doesn't cost ki because it effectively does the same damage than using the Martial Arts feature and attacking with an unarmed strike using a bonus action. Empowering the blade is mostly a flavor feature. Ghost blade doesn't cost ki because 11th level features are a tier level feature, but i do agree with it being tied to Psychic Devastation, to avoid the huge combo boost of using Ghost Blade and Flurry of Blows. I also agree with your naming suggestions. Anastacio (talk) 06:45, 17 October 2022 (MDT)

Thank you for taking my suggestions onboard! The one thing I think is still an issue is the balance of empowering the blade at level 5 or higher, as once you have an extra attack, empowering the blade takes you most of the way to being equal to flurry of blows (2 additional Martial Arts dice) for a bonus action: and also, as these are through 2 attacks, not 4, there is a higher chance to do more damage in a single turn this way. I think keeping Ghost Blade free if you empower the blade works, though. --HedgehogWraith (talk) 07:26, 17 October 2022 (MDT)

I get your feeling, and makes sense because monk subs usually are on the lower tiers of power, but think about it in this way: bonus action attacks grant you what? An average of 5,5 damage at 1st level, that grows up to 10,5 damage at 17th level (1d4 + 3 to 1d10 +5). Empowering the blade damage progression is the following: 2,5 at 3rd (lower than making an unarmed strike), 7 at 5th (compared to 7,5 - 1d6+4 of making an unarmed strike), 9 at 11th level (compared to the 9,5 of making a unarmed strike, 1d8 +5), and ends in 11 at 17th level, finally above unarmed strike. At 11th level empowering the blade starts to become really powerful, because one of the attacks is made against the AC of 10, but i believe is still balanced compared to other martials, since the monk can't really optimize his damage with spells or feats like other martial classes can. The average damage of a monk using the spectral blade at 11th level is about 22,5 (accounting for the 65% hit rate). A fighter using a longsword and dueling style, deals 22,5 av damage, without needing to use its bonus action. This feature looks OP because monks are generally very underpowered, lol Anastacio (talk) 08:17, 17 October 2022 (MDT)

That makes a lot of sense, but i still think it de-incentivises using standard monk abilities like Flurry of Blows. By being a resource-free bonus action, it uses all action economy for the subclass abilities. Instead, as a free action that costs a Ki point, it keeps the bonus action free for unarmed strikes as well, so while at 5th level and up the Blade itself doesn't have as much impact, without spending any Ki youre doing 2d10 + 1d6 + 3x Dex mod. The added benefit of this is that by spending 2 ki points in a turn (Flurry + empower), you can up this to 2d10+4d6+4x Dex mod. I think this really lean in to what monks are about, cause it really gives ab ability to throw out a beat down. --HedgehogWraith (talk) 10:09, 17 October 2022 (MDT)