Talk:Tripper (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

Problems

Why go with the Dire Flail when the Spiked Chain is arguably the most famous trip enabler in the game? The bonus is negligible next to the 15 foot reach of the Chain.

You would probably be better served with Combat Reflexes than Dodge, so you can control the entire battlefield instead of just one opponent.

Taking a homebrew race with a con penalty into the war zone is risky. You're going to be in the very thick of combat, and that means that you're going to take damage. I'd suggest Warforged, Half-orc, or Human for the extra feat, although if you're dead set on the homebrew, I would suggest taking Cloak Dance out of XPH or Fade Into Violence out of PhB2 as soon as humanly possible.

Weapon focus is, for lack of a nicer word, subpar. You'd be better off with something to shore up any other aspect of your character. Toughness and Improved Toughness keep you in the game. Karmic Strike is also a hell of an option, as you can trip while people are attacking you. You still can't go wrong with Improved Initiative, also known as the best non-wizard feat in the PhB.

The problem with the build, even with the questionable Expert Tripper levels, is that tripping simply doesn't kill your enemies, and it doesn't even faze most quadrupedal monsters. As epic as tripping a Colossal Red might be, it's just going to get back up, and eventually its huge strength mod will win out over yours.

I apologize for ripping your build up, but seriously, you're trying to stack up against Hulking Hurler with this. =) We should be doing way better, and I'll try to think up a few ideas about it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.232.159.103 (talk • contribs) 11:52, 1 December 2006. Please sign your posts.

Oh, its fine. I never really thought of this as a good optimization; I know this. If you would like to take this into your won hands I would be very grateful. Would you like to do this? --Green Dragon 14:55, 2 December 2006 (MST)

Tripping Bonus - Size

Size gives a bonus to tripping (contrary to what IP 76.201.176.246 said). here is a good place to learn all about tipping and it states "A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a -4 penalty for every size category he is smaller than Medium." --Green Dragon 23:25, 17 April 2007 (MDT)

Dire Flail

Um, why does the flail give a trip bonus? The text says

When using a dire flail, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the opposed attack roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the dire flail to avoid being tripped.

So the +2 is for disarm, not trip? Or am I reading this wrong? --Pwsnafu 21:52, 25 June 2007 (MDT)

Change it is you would like to. Thanks. --Green Dragon 14:25, 3 July 2007 (MDT)

An Alternative

As an alternative race option, you could try Half-Ogre (found in Savage Species, though it may have been reprinted elsewhere). You still get the +4 to trip for being large, and it gives a +6 racial bonus for strength (for an extra +3 to trip due to str). It also gives a +2 con. bonus, for an extra 2 hp per level over the Hitakand. You get a reach of 10 ft. which combined with combat reflexes and a decent dex will let you trip enemies before they reach you. This can be compounded with the reach benefit of the spiked chain. The only real downside is a +1 level adjustment. --WithoutHisFoot 21:30, 27 July 2007 (MDT)

I like it. I, personally, think it should be changed... Would you like to change it into the Half-Ogre as I do not mind the community editing my creations? --Green Dragon 10:38, 30 July 2007 (MDT)

How about we try a different approach altogether:

Standard point-buy: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 8

Race: Dwarf (Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 6), almost any Medium +0 LA race will do, but I like dwarves.

ECL	Class/HD/LA	Feats	Special
1st	cleric	Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Scribe ScrollB	divine favor, guidance, ray of hope (Book of Exalted Deeds), Rune Domain (Player's Guide to Faerûn)
2nd	cleric
3rd	cleric	Combat Reflexes
4th	cleric		ability score increase (Wis 15)
5th	cleric
6th	cleric	Power Attack
7th	cleric		divine power, greater magic weapon
8th	cleric		ability score increase (Dex 15)
9th	cleric	Cleave	righteous might
10th	fighter	Weapon FocusB (spiked chain)
11th	war hulk (Miniatures Handbook)		Str 16
12th	war hulk	Combat Expertise	Str 18, ability score increase (Dex 16)
13th	war hulk		Str 20
14th	war hulk		Str 22
15th	war hulk	Improved Trip	Str 24
16th	war hulk		Str 26, ability score increase (Dex 17)
17th	war hulk		Str 28
18th	war hulk	Knock-Down, ToughnessB	Str 30
19th	war hulk	ToughnessB	Str 32
20th	war hulk	ToughnessB	Str 34, ability score increase (Dex 18)

With righteous might and divine power your attack bonus is (+20 BAB, +17 Str, +1 WF, −1 Large) +37 and your Strength check modifier for tripping is (+17 Str, +4 IT, +4 Large) +25. And this doesn't even take into account other spells like greater magic weapon, bless, divine favor, guidance, and ray of hope (Book of Exalted Deeds), nor has equipment been factored in. Another nifty side benefit is that righteous might, unlike other size-increasing effects, does not apply a penalty to your Dex. Lastly, the capstone ability of the war hulk, massive swing, is similar to Whirlwind Attack, except that:

1. It's one roll applied to all opponents within range instead of rolling separately for each opponent (which, IMO, neither better nor worse)
2. It's a standard action
3. If you use a full-round action you get iterative massive swings due to BAB, and
4. You don't loose the extra attack from Cleave (though if you drop more than one opponent with massive swing, you only get one attack from Cleave).

—Sledged (talk) 14:06, 9 August 2007 (MDT)

Go for it - it looks better. --Green Dragon 14:34, 11 August 2007 (MDT)

Done. I went with the illumian race instead. —Sledged (talk) 14:27, 6 January 2008 (MST)

Do you think adding a flaw would help Munchkin-Size this or should it not be added because it would be just pertain to a part of this class that would never be used and become unfair? --Green Dragon 16:25, 6 January 2008 (MST)

What did you have in mind? There's a number of items to be added to the munchkin-size me section. Namely magic/psionic equipment and buff spells that this build can't cast on it's own. —Sledged (talk) 20:39, 6 January 2008 (MST)