Talk:Slave (5e Class)

"Choose a simple background" isn't a quick build. Give the name of a background (even if it's just Slave (5e Background)) Marasmusine (talk) 18:07, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

More:

• I don't understand what Over Time actually does. How does it interact with the crafting downtime activity?
• Don't change how XP is awarded. This is entirely the purview of the DM, who might be using one of the alternate reward systems. Furthermore, receiving double XP is a completely different progression to "gaining two levels every other time the party levels up once".
• It's mentioned having a master as a direct mechanic (i.e. allowing multiclassing or not), but doesn't explain who the master might be. Can it be another player, who might let the slave PC do what they want anyway?
• What happens if the PC has a master who isn't another PC? Is the master an NPC who must somehow follow the party around to give the slave orders?
• Mind Set has three features. Do you get them all? It says "when unlocking this", how do you unlock it?
• Yes Sir gives proficiency to all checks. Not just skill checks: all ability checks. If the master is co-operating with the party, this can be any and all checks as required.
• At 7th and 11th level you get features that awards treasure. Again, treasure is the purview of the DM. Marasmusine (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

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You will need to forgive my poor wording within the class, i never got any schooling and am fully self taught, this clearly leaves me at a strong disadvantage with English even though it is my only language, but i understand all the points you raised and would like to work with you to better the class i made, the class in name having been made as a souly utility class for a party i am working with,

I don't understand what Over Time actually does. How does it interact with the crafting downtime activity?

• It essentially is to act as preforming a personal downtime, so you could use one Over Time to add 10gp to a craft item during downtime or to add 5gp to two different craft times during downtime, an Over Time can also be used when camping for a while to work on a craft item.

Don't change how XP is awarded. This is entirely the purview of the DM, who might be using one of the alternate reward systems. Furthermore, receiving double XP is a completely different progression to "gaining two levels every other time the party levels up once".

• When it comes down to it literally everything is always up to the DM, putting "this is up to the DM" to everything in this class would flood the page with that phrase, i left it out with the assumption that everyone knows most everything and anything can be altered by the DM if they see fit, and i put "for a simple system" in () after the part about XP for those that use a party leveling system apposed to an XP system.

It's mentioned having a master as a direct mechanic (i.e. allowing multiclassing or not), but doesn't explain who the master might be. Can it be another player, who might let the slave PC do what they want anyway? What happens if the PC has a master who isn't another PC? Is the master an NPC who must somehow follow the party around to give the slave orders?

• This is mentioned in the Quick Build section but it is up to the role play, if you work with another player before hand to have them be your master then that is your master should the DM allow it, if the master is an NPC then it is completely up to the DM how it is handled, the NPC might indeed tag along with the party, or they might give a specific one or two party members temporary ownership of the slave, it all depends on how the DM wishes to handle it.

Mind Set has three features. Do you get them all? It says "when unlocking this", how do you unlock it?

• I notice i did not detail this, it is supposed to be similar to a class path feature, when you make your character you pick one of the three mind set options this will become your mind set feature and will predetermine what feature you get at level 20.

Yes Sir gives proficiency to all checks. Not just skill checks: all ability checks. If the master is co-operating with the party, this can be any and all checks as required.

• Indeed it can, but doing it for literally every single action will clearly fall under meta-gaming and not role-playing, this again is something that is up to the DM to handle, if they do not like meta-gaming they will assumedly discourage doing so when the feature is gained or if they notice it being abused, if they do not care about meta-gaming then they will not care if it gets abused, this is another thing that just falls down to being handled how the players and DM play their games.

This class just gets messier and messier. At 7th and 11th level you get features that awards treasure. Again, treasure is the purview of the DM.

• That was unnecessarily rude but, yes again, this is things that come strongly under how the DM wants to play things, but as stated, this is a weak class for those that want to make decent gold at a steady rate, if having ways to earn extra gold and treasure is something the DM does not want then they will simply disallow the use of this class. that is a risk you take when wanting to use home-brew content with a new DM.

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If English isn't your strong point, that's okay, we can work together to improve the wording.

For example, for Over Time, I might suggest something like:

"At the end of every day that you spend taking the crafting downtime activity, you can spend an overtime point to progress an additional 10 gp towards the item."

As for the double-level-progression, what is it you're trying to represent or achieve with this? When everyone else has +4 proficiency bonus, 10 hit dice, and 2 ability score improvements, you want a slave to have a +6 proficiency, 20 hit dice, and 5 ability improvements. Why? If you want a slave to be more skilled, have better recovery, and have higher abiltity scores, why not just work that into the normal progression? Marasmusine (talk) 21:10, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

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I fully agree with the change to Over Time, though i did word my explanation poorly, each use of Over Time is meant to be like a downtime in itself, so using one Over Time during downtime would add 10gp progress rather than 5gp, using two would add 15gp and three 20gp, or you could make 5gp progress in one item using your regular crafting downtime and then to add 5gp progress to a different item using your Over Time,

As an attempt at an example, say a player has a max of two Over Time charges and the party has a chance for some downtime, the player says;

"I use my woodcarving kit to make 5gp progress on whittling the a wooden figure of a warg i started last session and then use my two Over Time charges on my painters kit to start making 10gp progress on painting (party member) in a heroic pose"

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I see this now with the leveling, i do not know how but the hit die and proficiency completely slipped my mind somehow, would halving the hit die per level and proficiency progress and then make the class only progress in even numbers work? example, they start at level 2, then level 4, 6, 8, etc. but only gain 1d4 hit points per level and their proficiency bonus is lower at all levels?

Or would there be some of reworking the class to only be able to reach level 10 and make it progress normally in terms of XP?

Edit,

I have made some changes, and have slightly altered how Overtime works to function almost exactly how you saw it, i honestly think it fits and works better this way than the way i originally intended :)

2nd Edit,

My intention behind the rushed leveling is that the Slave is extremely weak in combat and is played almost entirely for the utility and role-play elements of it, but part way through their grand adventure they can brake free of their slave class in a manner of speaking and now start rapidly learning a new class to catch up with the rest of the party in terms of combat prowess,

So a player may start off as this pitiful slave that cant even pull off an advantage attack vs a prone goblin with no armor or eyes but they rapidly level up as a Slave and quickly become more and more useful to the party for reasons outside of combat, be it earning more gold to share, finding more loot to trade or using their special roll bonuses to get info from NPCs that even the silver tongued bard failed to get, and then part way though a grand adventure the Slave reaches their full Slave class potential (level 20) and can start learning a new class at an increased rate, suddenly this character that before was no more than a bit of a joke and some interesting role-play is now a novice warlock who has all these feats from being a slave all the way to level 20 that they can earn a luxurious living of their feats alone but now they are learning to master the arcane arts too.

Over all, the Slave is meant to be a class that is highly lacking in combat but makes up for it outside of combat without getting too far ahead in terms of diplomacy, and can then start to become a normal class just with the added bonuses of managing to survive for so long as a Slave, if that makes any sense?

Okay, I'm confused :) You want the slave to be a weak utility class: okay. I still don't understand the point of the fast level progression. They can't "catch up" with the rest of the party if they are 20th level and everyone else is 10th level, can they? (as they can't gain any more levels).

Yes, if you want the slave to only have a maximum of 10 levels, only give them 10 levels. You can do so with the 10-level template at 5e Special Classes.

You can make them weak in combat by not giving them weapon proficiencies. That's all you need to do for that (but look out for elves and dwarfs who have racial weapon proficiencies) Marasmusine (talk) 12:01, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

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I slept on it and came up witha few ideas to try work around it, but making it a level 10 class and condensing the features down is likely the best way to go about fixing this, thank you.

Me again

Okay, it's been a while, let's see how this has changed.

• Quick build now says "choose a background of general labor such as farmer, carpenter, butcher." Those are not backgrounds. Please look in your PHB to see what backgrounds are, and pick one. If you not sure, I'll pick one for you: Soldier (captured in battle and sold into slavery)
• The starting equipment has "20 chopper coins"
• This class should, straight away, explain that members of this class have an owner, who that owner is, and how it effects the game. Instead it talks about a "master" without defining it, except vaguely in "quick build". You "start with what ever your master has provided you with".. gosh, I'll have him start me with lots of expensive equipment then!
  • And again with "If you have a master when gaining this feature,". Do I have a master? Don't I? Is it an NPC? A PC?
• Overtime gamifies something that anyone should be able to do through DM discretion anyway.
• Yes Sir!. You don't "gain" proficiency modifier, you either add your proficiency modifier to a check or you don't. There's no strict definition of "non-combat check". A "check" can only means an ability check.
• Waste Not Want Not doesn't related to the 5e rules on starvation.
• I do not know what "Job Well Done" is supposed to do. I craft a loaf of bread and it's worth 1gp, 1cp (instead of 1 cp)?; I craft a spyglass and it's worth 1001 gp?
• Go-Getter lets me learn two features of my master?! So if my master is a bard, I can have spellcasting and bardic inspiration? And if my master is an NPC with no class levels or cantrips, I don't get anything I guess? Marasmusine (talk) 16:20, 4 July 2017 (MDT)

I'm looking ahead a bit, and I see:

• "hiding places on a boss corpse", "the reward giver", these are undefined.
• I see what the needsbalance template is talking about now. Correct, the DM tells you what rewards you get. Marasmusine (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2017 (MDT)

Hmm. This class needs some work, but I can see the concept. Is anyone opposed to me taking over and fixing it up? Agrith (talk) 14:01, 3 August 2017 (MDT)

Go for it. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 14:36, 3 August 2017 (MDT)

I really don't want an edit war. I understand why you changed the class back, but, if you look at the above statements, this class needs a lot of work as it is. If you want to go over it, I'd be happy to help. Otherwise, please change it back. Agrith (talk) 15:53, 9 September 2017 (MDT)

Slave Reworked

And may I introduce the new, reworked slave class for Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition! Alright, fanfare aside, the rework is "done." Feel free to comment on it or point out anything that need relooed at. We do like have nice, function classes on this wiki, yes? This was a fun concept to work with and I enjoyed it! Thank you and fare thee well! Agrith (talk) 18:07, 10 August 2017 (MDT)

I see you've put in some hard work. I'm afraid my feeling is still that this comprises of relationships and attitudes that should be roleplayed rather than gamified. Marasmusine (talk) 01:56, 20 August 2017 (MDT)

True, but I'm not sure about how to fix that. I was trying to roughly keep to the original concept while also making it playable and something people would want to play. Also, thanks with the picture. I didn't know about those problems and left the picture because it looked nice and fit the class. Agrith (talk) 10:48, 21 August 2017 (MDT)

After thinking about it, Yes, the class does gamify somethings that are normally roleplayed, but many people do ignore things like that when making their character (I've seen a VERY civilized barbarian before). In addition, it offers avenues to roleplay with that can make it more than just what the class says. Cowed can be taken to having player be a sniveling coward or frightened at everything or who know what else. Vindictive can be rebellious, but that doesn't mean they can't be secretly rebellious or not really rebellious but rather plotting rebellion. You get what I mean? Agrith (talk) 12:43, 23 August 2017 (MDT)

Again I can only give you my opinion: on the other hand there's nothing to say you have to roleplay these traits. A player with a slave with "oblivious" doesn't have to roleplay it that way to gain the benefit; while another player who is roleplaying an obvious character (from background personality flaws, say), might be wondering why they aren't getting those benefits. (That's why flaws are rewarded with Inspiration) Marasmusine (talk) 15:23, 23 August 2017 (MDT)

True, but then, these are class features. But you are right. I added flavor text that may not be necessary and might lead to things like that... Thanks for pointing it out, though. Oh, and question. Should I remove the stubs on it, or just leave them for now? Agrith (talk) 13:32, 24 August 2017 (MDT)

Rechange

I am changing the class back. It has been some time with no response. Agrith (talk) 22:05, 21 September 2017 (MDT)

I've noticed that two of the archetypes do not get anything at 1st levle.

Has this been playtested yet? It's such a weak class that the whole party is at a disadvantage for a typical combat encounter for their level. Marasmusine (talk) 02:28, 22 September 2017 (MDT)