Talk:Shapeshifter (5e Class)

"Starting at level 1 you are able to use your turn to shapeshift into a creature of your choice that has a CR of half your Shapeshifter level or less. After level one, half your shapeshifter level or less rounded down."

Could be easier put along the lines of: creature of up to CR = 1/2 of shapeshifter lv, min 1(or 1/2 if that was intended). The phrasing is slightly unclear.

Eg. Half or less rounded down could be half rounded down or else, etc. & putting that it rounds down after lv one, in most classes would say it always rounds down(or assume it was implicit) and add an exception for lv 1 after.

Also, No units of measurement. "You can hold that for for a time equal to your Charisma score" is meaningless. Charisma score worth of seconds? Hours? Decades? And, the double 'for' is most likely a typo, meaning form probably?

Didn't want to edit the original because it isn't mine, but that's what i'd suggest the author look into if i was editing or this was submitted for peaching.

Edit-

This:

"If your shapeshifted form is reduced to 0 hit points, you return to your true form at half the hit points you were at prior to shapeshifting, knocked prone."

Is really weird.

Don't know how to fix it, but this kind of near-death immunity isn't really a thing in most classes. Usually you'd get fast healing, or heal discrete ammounts upon shapeshifting or something.

I get it, i don't dislike it, but it feels weird to me.

It seems to be based on how the druid's wild shape works (in which you revert to the number of hit points you had prior to shapeshifting). But as you point out, it seems to get things wrong.

• The druid's wild shape is limited to twice between rests, which limits the "hp buffer". This class gives a lot more uses, so the "hp buffer" is much bigger; but at the same time, each time you use it, it divides your actual HP in half. If I have 24 hit points, I drop to 12 after the first use; 6 after then second; 3 after the third; 1 after the fourth. As you say, this is weird. It means that once I begin to use shapeshift, I'm invested in repeating shapeshift for as long as possible to keep that buffer up.
• The number of times you can use this is not standard. If my Charisma modifier is 5, and my proficiency modifier is +5, I can use this 10 times before needing a long rest. Considering the number of encounters a party has between long rests, and the cooldown time, is that really a useful number?
• I shouldn't be able to shapeshift into any kind of monster, certainly not a construct or an undead.
• It repeats then contradicts itself on what CR creature can be shapeshifted into.
• It contradicts itself with the cooldown time. Is it 10 minutes or 30 minutes? (Clue: 30 minutes is not a standard duration).
• It contradicts itself with how long you remain shapeshifted.
• Unlike wild shape, this feature does not explain how it interacts with other racial or class features. If I shapeshift into a gelatinous cube, can I still cast spells or breathe fire or use a monk's martial arts feature? Marasmusine (talk) 02:51, 22 July 2017 (MDT)

Edit- The table on page 2 of: https://rpg.rem.uz/Dungeons%20%26%20Dragons/D%26D%205th%20Edition/Unearthed%20Arcana/UA19%20-%20Encounter%20Building.pdf is good to see what a characters level is vs. challenge rating—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Raptorcorn1 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

You are aware that moon druid's have full spellcasting and can transform into CR 1 beasts at 2nd level correct? The class was designed to have more options on their transformations at lower levels than it, with you eventually gaining the ability to transform into higher CR creatures and you being able to transform 3 times per short rest to make up for the fact that you can't cast spells like the moon druid.--Blobby383b (talk) 18:52, 29 April 2018 (MDT)

Edit- The SRD spell Moonbeam destroys this class. Its a second level spell and deals 2d10 radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d10 for each slot level above 2nd. The spell states that "A Shapechanger makes its saving throw with disadvantage. If it fails, it also instantly reverts to its original form and can't assume a different form until it leaves the spell's light." Considering that the spell is of low level and can be spammed you are going to run out of shape changes pretty quick if you fail the saves.

At 9th level, you gain advantage on Constitution saving throws from magic. This helps a great deal but I can't help but think that its not enough and maybe that the hit dice should be increased (d8 instead of the current d6) to allow the shapeshifter class to fight on equal footing against a druid.

I didn't want to edit the original because it isn't mine, but I think this may be a balancing issue. --Random guy

Although I do like the d6 hit die the shapeshifter has currently, a d8 hit die may be more appropriate just so the class isn't so squishy outside of its shapeshifted form.--Blobby383b (talk) 08:59, 30 July 2018 (MDT)

Edit- The original class seemed to have some issues that have not been addressed for 2 years, aka seems like it is abandoned. I've changed a few things to more simplistic and 5e-like abilities. Shapeshift uses is changed to prof mod to give a more gradual progression. Conformer archetype is removed as it had too many problems to be rectified. For example, the ability to change into humanoids. Most humanoids with high cr are specific individuals, such as an acolyte of the cult of dragons, a mage, etc. How does being a shapeshifter give you abilities related to obscure organizations? Next, Multilingual lets you cast a cantrip 2 times per rest. Why? It fits neither thematically or mechanically. Master shapeshifter, at 18th level you gain an ability druids have at 2nd level.

It is replaced by 'Chimera' archetype that lets you combine monsters. Useful in two ways, first is theme and roleplay (like making a draconic wolf), and gaining the resistances of 2 monsters. In exchange, your hp will be much lower, and attacks will be weaker. For example, at 17th lvl, you can combine 2 cr4 monsters or be a cr8 one. Highly Situational Ability. --Lucifer

To Much Hitpoints

I recently played this class in a one-shot and it was a ton of fun. The one thing to note with this class is the fact that you have a crazy amount of hitpoints. Since you can turn into anything that isn't undead or construct it opens up some very tanky creatures to use. For example, if you are level 12 and use both of your uses to shapeshift into a shambling mound, that is already 272 hitpoints on top of your normal hit points. If you go the way of the abnormality and start combat already in your preferred creature, which at level 12 is a cr 2 such as a gelatinous cube that has 84 hit points, you would have over 300 hitpoints plus your normal ones and you are only level twelve. You wouldn't have the best ac or damage but the sheer amount of health you have lets you carry most encounters. I don't know how you would balance this without breaking the class but at least put a warning for DM so they can try to balance encounters for this.GuyWhoHasn'tMadeAWikiAccount 1/11/2021

You'll find that the above issue is also present in the Druid, which is part of what makes a Druid so powerful. At higher levels, they can tank better than some martial classes. There's precedent, and the hit die on this class is no higher than a druid's, so I'd say it remains mostly balanced, depending on what other features this class grants. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 18:28, 11 January 2021 (MST)

Wonderful explanation there nuke the earth. Besides your point, I would also like to say that transforming into tankier creatures also makes your damage per turn lower due to monsters' CR being balanced on their tankiness/dpr. In the same vein, high damage dealing monsters usually have much lower survivability. Overall though, I would say the class is balanced as they have better transformation scaling than the moon druid in exchange for losing full spellcasting.--Blobby383b (talk) 18:21, 4 February 2021 (MST)