Talk:Proxy (3.5e Race)

Despite the description of the race in the series I based it on, these proxies aren't godly or even god-like beings; they have no divine ranks or abilities that come from having such. Some of them may choose to declare themselves as gods, but they aren't. They are just powerful. Maiovez (talk) 10:54, 6 December 2018 (MST)

Balance

Why-or how-, in your opinion, does LA 20 balance this race? ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 11:35, 6 December 2018 (MST)

Well, LA +20 means the character starts in level 21, which makes it, from the very beginning, an epic character. Isn't it balanced enough for you? Beside, my more powerful races/templates aren't meant for player characters, but for NPCs. Maiovez (talk) 13:06, 6 December 2018 (MST)

Not even close to balance. CR 25 Baal doesn't even have these ASIs (Str 28, Dex 19, Con 31, Int 30, Wis 24, Cha 25), nor the DR mentioned (damage reduction 10/+2), way more feats than characters gain by level 20 and the CR 25 Baal, aside from knowledge checks-skill bonuses beyond a CR 25 Baal.

The only balancing factor I see, this race has no BAB or HD. It'll have +10h, +10hp, +10 dex (though still ~10 flat footed).

If it isn't meant for players, then I don't think it should be in a mainspace but rather a userspace. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:37, 6 December 2018 (MST)

Well, as I said, you don't have to use it. I uploaded everything I uploaded for the ones who would want it. No one forcing it on you. You started this conversation, not me. Aside, all the point in the races/templates I uploaded is to create a different, less strict, playing atmosphere. If the characters in the game (both PCs and NPCs) are more powerful than usual, if the monsters are more hard to kill, it creates more interesting game. If you don't like, it you can just ignore it. Maiovez (talk) 14:19, 6 December 2018 (MST)

I’m sorry but D&D Wiki does try to maintain some standards. There’s simply too material for us to catch everything. You are right I don’t have to this but someone else may happen on the page and want to use it thinking it is a balanced race. A naive GM would allow it and they’d find out it isn’t even close. D&Dwiki has been going through many changes the 18 months to reign the power of some articles. I ask that you read Help:Precedent and then decide does this page really align with D20 Modern. There is also a template, {{Design Disclaimer}} intended for articles that deviate from Core Rules. I hope we can work together on this. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 15:30, 6 December 2018 (MST)

Well, usually I works with 3.5e. I guess I should stick with it. However I thought it would work the better with D20 because it is science based other than magic based. Does making this race 3.5e would make it better for you? Maiovez (talk) 02:50, 7 December 2018 (MST)

Lack of Direct Description

I left the description vague to allow DMs to adjust the race to their campaign world. Maiovez (talk) 07:36, 7 December 2018 (MST)

Also, read the description: the good aligned ones and the evil aligned ones are sworn enemies. Maiovez (talk) 07:48, 7 December 2018 (MST)

There is still some semblance of guidance given to DMs to adjust races. The details I listed do not handcuff DMs by any means. The races in the Player's Handbook, or supplements, are easily adaptable to any setting while still providing context to the races' overall information. That is a goal on D&D wiki pages as well.

I read the description, and there are more relations in the multiverse than just how these proxies interact with their alignment opposites. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:55, 7 December 2018 (MST)

About their names... well, practically, for all of them, "proxy" is kind of a collective middle name. They won't use it while they are in disguise. And their true first names are a little archaic. Maiovez (talk) 11:32, 8 December 2018 (MST)

You know, I added a lot by your requirement, the least you can do is to look and to change your message. Maiovez (talk) 08:30, 10 December 2018 (MST)

I did look. Please don't assume what users do and don't do. I suggested more things to elaborate on because I saw you had been doing some. I thought what you done with names was pretty good. I will try better to inform you of my looking into things. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:32, 10 December 2018 (MST)

I wouldn't say "fixed":

• What else is there beyond being happy or malevolent? some additions, helpful. What are natural ones though?
• Are there examples of true names? I think this got fixed

Things I think could have been better:

• They may be any alignment but is their a tendency they lean towards? Why? The why part. is there any reason why?
• Are there preferred habitats? "inhabitated areas" how inhabitated? what in habitants?

These were other suggestions that weren't addressed but don't have to be.

• How do they interact with other races?
• Do they have sworn enemies?
• Are their homes typically made from a certain material?
• Do they hail from multicultural cities?

I really don't think that the template was fixed. I am one the biggest haters on fluff. I get irritated seeing users bugged over this detail. But when a page has only one sentence, and it is vague, it isn't good enough for precedent. This isn't personal. There are plenty of pages that need more details. I find it extremely hard that this super awesome race that gets LA +20 has so little creativity ideas. My repeated questions are attempts to get a better article for DMs to see. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 12:54, 10 December 2018 (MST)

Those questions were relevant if it was a base race, but it isn't. Also, you once tried to bring together a large group of such powerful creatures? Definitely not the best idea. There are no cities of theirs because they do not gather in groups bigger than five or six of them. And natural ones are ones who have natural alignments (lawful natural, pure natural and chaotic natural). Maiovez (talk) 15:01, 10 December 2018 (MST)

And it is a race, not a template. Maiovez (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2018 (MST)

And good idea about the languages. I should have thought about it myself. Maiovez (talk) 01:08, 11 December 2018 (MST)

About their look, they were created that way. They are lab creations and are well aware of that. This is all the folklore they have. Maiovez (talk) 07:49, 11 December 2018 (MST)

Alright this is great. You're sharing things here which shows you have an idea about this race. There is a story in your mind but it isn't fully on paper. Feel free to flesh that out and let people know it. Also, forgive me if I am wrong, but do you mean "neutral" instead of "natural"? I am slightly confused because you said they'd be relevant for a base race, but it isn't then later post that it is a race, not a template. I mean, even though they are created, these guys could learn how to procreate and exist as a base race now? There are other creations like that. If they didn't do that, then how do their numbers increase? Do they create more of themselves through lab creations? Are they immortal vs long live expectancy? And on the page it says they were once all good. Now I am intrigued as to what happened for the shift!? What happened that cause some to shift!!?

I understand wanting to throw your idea up with the numbers and not worry about the "fluff". the templates don't need to be addressed ASAP or anything. They serve as a reminder that something can be improved. That was all. It is nice to get a better picture of this crazy OP race too :p ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:22, 11 December 2018 (MST)

As I stated, they were created to protect earth, so originally they all were good. The alignment shift... well, some just, you know, corrected (evil). Others just got enough of protecting others (neutral).

About if they can reproduce... well, I guess they can, in matter of capability, but if and how commonly they actually do that... well, that is for the DM to decide. Maiovez (talk) 02:12, 12 December 2018 (MST)

This is like pulling teeth. The DM decides things but without a base they may as well create everything they use. There's no point to homebrew if the answer is simply up to the DM. Give the DMs something to build off of. There's more to D&D than numbers and stats. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:00, 12 December 2018 (MST)

Base race is a race player characters can play in a regular game. So, this isn't a base race, jsut a race. Maiovez (talk) 08:41, 12 December 2018 (MST)

Do you have anything to back that up? Not sure why red flag just went up because you've been using this term but I don't think it means what you think it means. There are races and subraces. 3.5e has monstrous races as well. "Base race" is a term used when applying templates. Outside of that, the term doesn't get used if I recall correctly. I read the SRD:About Races and it uses base creature. So I am back to my original question of what is a base race? Regardless, about every article gets a decent amount of lore and fluff written about it. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 10:10, 12 December 2018 (MST)

Just ignore it. I confused with something else. I worked a lot with templates lately, so I got used to use the term 'base race'. Yes, they can acquire templates. And they have unlimited live expectancy aka immortality. Maiovez (talk) 11:11, 12 December 2018 (MST)

Do you mind if I type up the lore stuff? I found the link to source material and think I can add enough to suffice for my concerns. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 11:41, 12 December 2018 (MST)

You want that I will add a lore? Maiovez (talk) 13:01, 12 December 2018 (MST)