Talk:Northern Ranger (5e Class)

A Weird Ranger Variant

I'd like to thank the recent changes page for bringing my attention to this weird one. In general, this page suffers from a lot from both weird wording, balance, and all that. I'll start with wording, since this is what actually made me decide to this in the first place.

The class is covered in the stuff, so I'll just stick with the major offenders that don't fall into other categories. For starters, Full Dodge. The initial version I reverted was simple and clean, you just rolled an Acrobatics check and then you know if it works or not. Now, you have to find out what modifier it used to attack, get the DC from that, roll a nonexistent check(dex ability?), and then you know. This also appears in every single subclass, so why it only appears in subclasses instead of the base class baffles me a little. Extra Attack has an odd bit, where it says other subclasses gain more attacks, Master Ranger mentions system shock which also does not exist, Mark of the Wolf says you use the same attack bonus as your preferred weapon which is just the same as if you punched normally, unless it's dexterity based, Archer says you gain "some abilities related to archery" which is more confusing than it has any right to be, and many other features refer to class features as feats("...trigger one of the effects from the Sharp Shoot Feat...", "...The ability stacks with the feats from Blade Savant..."). These are only some of the highlights.

Talking about balance on this class is a bit odd, mostly because chunks are pretty unclear, but I'll try. For starters, WLaTE gives you expertise in four different skills(!) at 1st level. While this is limited to certain skills, it is still more expertise faster than the two skill monkeys(bard and rogue) gain. Kiss the Steel makes longswords into a single handed greatsword+, which is ridiculous enough for me to not need to explain(also says sixth level). Strength of the Wolf, while gained slightly later than Indomitable for fighters, is still leaps and bounds better, no risk of failing a second time. Master Execution seems wholly pointless for Defender, keeping their average damage the same, if slightly higher, but making the other two subclasses output significantly higher. Elite Ranger is the barbarian capstone gained two levels earlier. Master Ranger gives ludicrous amounts of unconditional healing every round, up to 26(!!!) hitpoints, well above the Champion subclass capstone. Clash, while not as egregious in my mind, has really low "ability checks", considering the fact you are proficient(and also have higher than usual modifiers at 20th level). Archer gives you a total of +4 to attack rolls at 2nd level, not to mention the ability to completely ignore cover and long range disadvantage. These are most of the balance issues, but I likely missed one or two.

This whole page just kinda stinks of jank, from ridiculously high power to confusing wording all throughout. I don't have the time, energy, or passion to go over how to improve this class, since it basically just feels like a stronger fighter masquerading as a ranger. This all brings me to one question, why? Why can't this just be a fighter/ranger subclass? Or hell, even variant features. A few of this classes core stuff already are variant features on the wiki anyways. Why go through the effort of making an entirely new class just to have a few slightly different things?

I think this page could really benefit from just being turned into a set of variant features or subclass for the fighter. Less stretching, less effort to balance, easier to write, harder to screw up. --SwankyPants (talk) 22:47, 27 December 2020 (MST)

Ditto to the above. The concept would fit much better as either a set of variant rules or a subclass. Anyone who'd like to take part in making that happen is welcome to. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 09:05, 28 December 2020 (MST)