Talk:Luparathi (5e Race)

I'm not really sure how to better balance this. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know. I'd actually like to keep this race around. (Mr. Melancholy (talk) 07:02, 30 May 2018 (MDT))

Discussion

Why isn't this balanced? +4 ASI, Darkvision (which I am not sure was intentional), two conditional skill advantages, a natural weapon, and disadvantage on investigation which makes the advantage on investigation when smelling moot. I don't find pigeon holing to be a balance issue, and I think races have a natural tendency for a class anyways. History of the race would be nice as well as a lengthier introduction. I think this race is more vanilla than actually unplayable. With dump stats like this, I see humorous role play situations and even more prone to magic chance. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 23:11, 22 June 2018 (MDT)

Don't forget it is a Large player race on top of all of that and we don't do negative ability scores in 5th edition. The 5e Race Design Guide gives a pretty comprehensive answer to these issues if you haven't already read through it. —ConcealedLight (talk) 01:47, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

ooo good points. Well, the ASI doesn’t change my question. Hm:

• Large
• +4 asi
• darkvision
• conditional skill advantage
• natural weapon

even on a musicus scale, isn’t this within the score range? Like I’m using intuition and can see the only issue is being large. Now I plead my case with something you are familiar with. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 06:53, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

+2 Str, +2 Con, Darkvision, Large. Those are the traits to be gauged; everything else on the page right now doesn't have much practical impact on balance, especially when taken together. If this race needs balance, then so does every Large race. - Guy (talk) 07:03, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

Agreed, with each word. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 07:05, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

So, if the race is perfectly fine, what's the deal with all the big scary headers? (I get it, only one is the applicable one, but still.) The creator was just trying to adapt a race from some already existing fiction. You really can't be mad at him for that. --ZarHakkar (talk) 07:50, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

If the race wasn't pigeonholed into a small array of classes/subclass through negative modifiers/traits and being magically inept then I'd agree that although it is clearly stronger statistically than other races from a combat perspective, taking into account the benefits of being large and the str/con increases, that it could be considered balanced. However, the race is pretty poor conceptually and the limits it applies to play don't make it much more than a stat stick for combat driven players. Until those issues are addressed I disagree with the current state of the race. —ConcealedLight (talk) 16:57, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

I find it's about as pidgeonholed as the orc race in Volo's Guide to Monsters; maybe slightly more with that -2 Wis. I do think this race would be improved with more traditional ASIs (or orc-like ASIs) and removing farsighted, though.

Regardless, to me, this seems like a minor issue. The race is usable as it is. I don't believe "needsbalance" is warranted unless it needs balance. - Guy (talk) 17:18, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

The orc is a monstrous race and monstrous races are not standard races. As stated on page 188 of Volo's Guide to Monster. If the first party is going to highlight their none standard nature and say things like, "to be used in a campaign with care" it might as well be the equivalent of our wiki Design Disclaimer. I believe one of the points of a DD is "The work is intended to be a faithful adaptation of a subject from another medium" for a non-standard page that attempts to do that as mentioned below by the creators authorial intent, I think the Design Disclaimer is a perfect solution to this issue, provided adequate justification can be given for a Design Disclaimer. —ConcealedLight (talk) 00:44, 24 June 2018 (MDT)

That is certainly one way to interpret what is being said in that block. None the less, I think DD would be good compromise. As per the DD discussions, "adequate justification" is subjective. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 11:34, 25 June 2018 (MDT)

I feel like I should probably cut in on this a bit.

The actual race in Children of the Sun isn't all that easy to just convert to 5e, and seeing as this is the first homebrew thing I've ever created I feel I should gain a little leeway. And, if not leeway, at least not some admin getting on my ass over barely anything.

Luparathi are considered magically inept. In this case, it's veering more so towards fluff than anything. Sure the whole decrease to intelligence would make it a little hard to play as a Wizard, but that doesn't mean you can't play as a magical class at all. If you really want, you can be a Luparathi Bard, or Warlock, or Sorcerer. Sure it's not ideal for the race, but the reason it was created in the first place was for people like me who still want to be able to play as a Luparathi.

Trust me, I'm sure it needs lots of work- I'm not saying it's perfect and no one should say anything bad about it. It is my first attempt at homebrew, after all. Things will change. I'll take a few more artistic liberties. But for now, this is as close as I could get to the original race. I don't know how much saying that will help my situation, but I thought maybe it was a good idea to actually say something myself instead of having other people defend me. Even if they are better at it. - Mr. Melancholy (talk) 19:06, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

Good to hear from the creator themself. Typically canon isn't sacrificed for balance and you get poor designs, so I am happy you toned things down for the sake of gameplay. I too would prefer more traditional scores (no negative scores! I really dislike them) but the race doesn't seem to have a balance issue but a preference issue. Honestly, first homebrew, I think you did good. Hopefully you check out the 5e Race Design Guide to help with more ideas too, or even understand where our thoughts and feelings come from when discussing balance. Cheers! BigShotFancyMan (talk) 20:23, 23 June 2018 (MDT)

Ability Score Decrease

The orc race in Volo's Guide to Monsters decreases Intelligence by 2. Even if it is uncommon, and I generally wouldn't advocate it, we do have ability score decreases in 5e. - Guy (talk) 07:09, 23 June 2018 (MDT)