Talk:Legionnaire (5e Class)

Ludicrous Experiments

Just out of poor curiosity, I did some calculations.

• Force gives you up to +6 to hit and damage.
• Body and Mind gives you a 30 score maximum, and the sheer amount of ASIs(20 total) can easily bring you to 30 with increases to spare. Gets even worse with Talent, as you can pick up 5 half-feats. Probably a waste, but still.
• Prowess(even though it’s worded so poorly I’ll wager a guess) gives you a +6 to hit and damage, and 6 die size increases.
• Extra Attack goes up to 6. Yikes.
• Natural Mastery allows you to get potentially thousands of mastery points, so that’s just permanent criticals.
• Mighty Warrior gives you a +3 to hit and damage, and then an extra +12 to damage, and a +6 to hit.

All in order, that’s 6(Proficiency) + 6(Force) + 10(ASI) + 6(Prowess) + 9(Mighty Warrior) to hit. +37 to hit. That doesn’t even matter because of Natural Mastery.

For damage, that’s 28d6(seven swings with an longsword, adding Prowess) + 42(Force) + 70(ASIs) + 42(Prowess) + 105(Mighty Warrior) in total, or 343 on average. That’s your average damage. Since you can just always have Natural Mastery, double it.

This class was not designed to be balanced. By design, it obliterates the entire concept of bounded accuracy. This is just a worse, poorly designed, more generic fighter. I would support the idea of putting a delete tag on this. --SwankyPants (talk) 19:01, 21 April 2021 (MDT)

Not to mention that, if you wanted to go the Defender route, you can become nearly unkillable. Here's my rough calculations:

• Plate Armor and a shield bumps the wearer's AC up to 20.
• You gain a +5 to AC just by reaching 17th level in this class.
• Defender route gives you another +6 to AC.
• Taking Defensive Dualist can basically give you another free +6 to AC, and, considering the ridiculous amount of ASI's and free feats you get, it's not a huge waste to take it.

All of this comes out to an Armor Class of 37, without any magic items. In addition, you also have:

• A d12 hit die, which, assuming you have a Constitution modifier of +5 (which isn't that big of a leap for this class, considering they could theroetically bump it all the way up to a +10), gives you a baseline hitpoint maximum of 245 hitpoints
• Endurance bumps this up by another 50 HP, making it a maximum of 295 HP.
• Resilient makes this even greater, increasing by 40 HP to a maximum of 335 HP.
• Any person who wants to tank in combat takes Tough, which increases it by another 40 to a total of 375 HP.

And this isn't even mentioning the fact that:

• Guard makes your saving throw bonuses increase by 5.
• Unyielding bumps this up by another 6, making you have a baseline of +11 for every saving throw, not including ability modifiers.
• You can just decide to treat a roll as a natural 20, practically at will considering how many hits you'll be getting.

All of this comes out to a total Armor Class of 37, a hit point maximum of 375, and at the MINIMUM a +11 to every single saving throw. This means that no attack can hit you, you can dodge every area of effect spell, and if by some miracle you do get hit, you barely get injured at all. Granted, this is if you take some feats, but any logical person who plays this class would just because they can, as they get so many free feats and ASI's.

Yeah, maybe this class needs to get rebalanced a tiny bit. Just a little. --MarshDASavage (talk) 20:53, 21 April 2021 (MDT)

I don’t even know if it should be reworked. The only thing going for this page is the big numbers, and if you get rid of that, you just have a generic fighter, and that should say something. Is it even worth the effort to rework? --SwankyPants (talk) 20:59, 21 April 2021 (MDT)

That's a really good point. I honestly don't know either. It definitely should be rebalanced, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. And even if someone does rebalance it, the flavor of it would just make a fighter clone, like you said. I'm tempted to try and rework it, maybe give it a few abilities unique abilities like a Shield Stance that can give half cover, but I'm not sure it's worth the time. I think I might try and fix a few basic features, like the hit die, ASI's, and free feats, and then see if it's worth it to rebalance it from there. --MarshDASavage (talk) 07:02, 22 April 2021 (MDT)

Edit: I have begun rebalancing the class a bit. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be super difficult to fix this class up, so I'm going to try and fix it up. I'm going to try and not lose the core of this class, just rework it to not make it absolutely broken. Hopefully, after I rebalance this class, it doesn't lose the class's general flavor. --MarshDASavage (talk) 07:14, 22 April 2021 (MDT)

Recent Work

Well, since you want it.

• Stances are an interesting system. Looks good. Could have expanded options though subclasses, to diversify them better than “wack good” and “take wacks good”.
• Body and Mind still makes me queasy. The only other thing that does that is the barbarian capstone, and it really should be that limited.
• Prowess is less egregious. Seems fine.
• Dropping 3 whole ASIs to bring them to the fighter’s level is good.
• Perfect Body and Perfect Mind is a little janky but otherwise the bonus is fine.
• Subclasses are weird, as always. Attacker is passable, Defender is garbage as it once was.

Seems to be heading to a good place. Nice job so far. --SwankyPants (talk) 18:40, 26 April 2021 (MDT)

Thanks for responding! I am still in the process of reworking it, so I will be sure to fix these issues in the near future. I'm definitely going to change Body and Mind soon, as it is a slap in the face to the whole concept of ability score capstones. I'm probably going to rework the subclasses to make them much more flavorful, as well as Perfect Body and Perfect Mind to make it much more clear and not broken. Thanks for your feedback! --MarshDASavage (talk) 19:07, 26 April 2021 (MDT)

Hey, just a suggestion for Arcane Soldier! Maybe make their spellcasting ability something like charisma? I feel if I’m making a build with this class, Intelligence wouldn’t be my first choice. Just a suggestion^^ _Firerealms13yk (talk) 18:04, 29 April 2021 (MDT)

Yeah, that's something that I should look at. You could say the same for the Eldritch Knight, however. I personally don't think it is a bad fit, but I will look into changing it to another ability score. I'm just not sure what one. Wisdom would be something like a Cleric, and Charisma doesn't really fit. What is your suggestion? --MarshDASavage (talk) 10:28, 11 May 2021 (MDT)

Completed

Hey there! MarshDASavage here. I just completely reworked this entire class. I tried to balance out the features while still keeping some of the original flavor of the class. I am a bit worried that it is a fighter clone still, but (I think) the core features of the class are just about as good as a fighter's, as well as the subclasses. I made the subclasses a bit weaker than the fighter's, as the fighter's main class gets a lot less features. I do want an outside eye to look over it, though. Please let me know what you think of the class- whether it is too similar to the Fighter, if it's overpowered, if the features need to reworked slightly, or anything else. Any feedback at all would be appreciated. Thanks! --MarshDASavage (talk) 10:28, 11 May 2021 (MDT)

Going over the page again, everything seems fine. A kinda variant fighter. Just a small nitpick, for the subclass stances, you should probably format them with a : and italics, instead of a ;. As of now it looks like another class feature. Besides that nitpick, I really don’t see anything in the way of problematic things. Nice job, man. --SwankyPants (talk) 08:06, 12 May 2021 (MDT)

Alright, thank you! I tried the colon and the italics, but it just didn't seem right to me, so I bolded it and used italics instead. Hopefully it looks better now. Thank you so much for your feedback! --MarshDASavage (talk) 09:04, 12 May 2021 (MDT)

The page seems good,it feels like a more tempered fighter,trading active abilities that give short-term boosts for passive bonuses that give small statistical improvements in the course of the combat.It's well written and is balanced quite well against the fighter,and all the subclasses are balanced well enough against each other,I think it's solid,balanced and in a finished state. --Vladulenta (talk) 06:08, 26 June 2021 (MDT)