Talk:Jungle Knuckles (5e Race)

A "Ugandan" race with a -2 INT ASI? That's... pretty racist.

Racist?

I’m curious if it would be racist if they were Irish, Asian, or Latin knuckles? In my quick search to understand this “meme” there’s definitely negative connections for this thing. I’m against negative ability score improvements in general, and I believe 5e Race Design says to justify or try and have good reason for a negative adjustment. I’m not sure I see one. I think those reasons help avoid a race debate. Feedback would be appreciated. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 16:28, 7 March 2018 (MST)

It's a very complex issue, but the whole "would it be racist if it was [X] non-disadvantaged race instead?" argument is flawed. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/reverse-racism-isnt-a-thing_us_55d60a91e4b07addcb45da97 (Varkarrus (talk) 18:00, 7 March 2018 (MST))

It's definitely a tough call. Based on what I've seen of it, the people who have made the meme didn't intend for it to be racist, but there are also a lot of people making the argument that the meme is racist. I'd probably remove this race page just in case. Any sign of racism at all is something that definitely can't be tolerated. --EpicBoss99 (talk) 18:08, 7 March 2018 (MST)

I recognize issues with reverse racism, and that’s why I didn’t bring up white vs black. I used other cultures, intentionally trying to avoid any debate of white vs x.

Do you any comments for my other points though? These are the remarks I find to help move this topic forward. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 18:40, 7 March 2018 (MST)

I do think that if there was an Irish, Asian or Latin Knuckles meme, it'd probably be racist as well (Irish racism isn't as common as it used to be, however). Please feel free to nominate this page for deletion and/or continue discussing its deletion here :) --GamerAim (talk) 19:11, 7 March 2018 (MST)

Well, big surprise, but SgtLion disagrees, even though I don't believe any discussion could save this article now. This is just reference to a meme which is, at the very least, not explicitly 'racist' (a word that is already a terrible term to use, as we have differing definitions of it). The article itself makes no reference to any race beyond the title, which is merely incidental. Ugandans aren't 3 feet tall, they're not adults at 4, and they can't speak halfling. It seems our only issue with this article is the word 'Ugandan' - would just replacing all instances of 'Ugandan' with 'Meme' resolve this issue? Though BSFM's suggestion to remove the negative adjustment is decent, I feel that any mechanical aspect of this is going to be interpreted with the same view, here. --SgtLion (talk) 01:32, 8 March 2018 (MST)

It's definitely not racist, since "Ugandans" are not a race, but bigotry takes its toll here. --Green Dragon (talk) 08:44, 8 March 2018 (MST)

0_0 If I attributed to that behavior I apologize. I don't think I did, but perhaps my words were taken in another context. I think if "Ugandan" was replaced the next issue would be the image since it represents the meme. Like other pages with similar issues in past, are we dealing with inappropriate or offensive? Vark, you've expressed a dislike for the page. Can you elaborate why you think it is inappropriate? It seems racism is being ruled out, do you think there's discrimination against a certain nation? Is your only concern & solution for this article to be deleted? BigShotFancyMan (talk) 10:43, 8 March 2018 (MST)

I am okay if we change "Ugandan" to something else, like "Desert" or "Jungle". If we can change the image that's good to. --Green Dragon (talk) 23:33, 18 March 2018 (MDT)

The meme is still bad & you should feel bad. --YellowAngel (talk) 09:35, 28 March 2018 (MDT)

Your meme is bad

And you should feel bad! --YellowAngel (talk) 17:42, 17 March 2018 (MDT)