Talk:Jedi Knight (3.5e Class)

Tried to make the class conform to D & D Wiki standards. It'll take some time. Creative edits appreciated! --Gedren56

Thank you very much! --Sakurasboy 16:07, 6 October 2008 (MDT)

Lightsaber vs. Forceblade vs. Laser Blade vs. Sword of the Force

I spent some time on the Adaptation section and wondered about how a lightsaber would work in a D&D world. It wouldn't, but I saw 2 versions of the lightsaber created by Eiji that were interesting: the forceblade and the laser blade. I also found something called the [[Sword of the Force (DnD Equipment) | sword of the Force]] by Sakurasboy that was meant to be a quest item or minor artifact or whatever. Does anyone else have a say on stepping away from D&D weapons, or does anyone agree with my statements in the Adaptations section of this article?
--Gedren56 14:19, 16 October 2008 (MDT)

I actually have a third lightsaber coming up, which is basically Flame Blade, constant, on an item. To make it stronger, I am adding a 600 surcharge to make it 'upgradable' as if it were a weapon and not a wondrous item. Needless to say this is expensive, but very in line with lightsabers... touch attacks and energy damage.

And in the event fire damage fails you, you could always Forceblade it for 1d8+1 force damage, 18-20/x2. Expect to see it soonish. -- Eiji 20:38, 16 October 2008 (MDT)

Lazy over. Gentlemen... Behold! -- Eiji 23:04, 16 October 2008 (MDT)

I must ask, how is it that a level one character is supposed to get their hands on a weapon like any of those mentioned? Most low level parties would have no chance at buying any one of these. However, if a Jedi does get to start with one, it should be either the Forceblade or Beam Sabre, as they do not come with an inherent advantage other than damage type. --Enialis 18:30, 11 April 2011 (MDT)

I agree, too much of an advantage to start, there has to be some balancing disadvantage. Start as a padawan, no money to start. Or make it a prestige class. As a prestige class only for a Padawan class would be best, or for a Psion class as well. There actually many kinds of Jedi, there should really be several Prestige classes. 173.245.55.62 04:49, 30 August 2011 (MDT)

I personally had an idea of how within the world a lightsaber would work, but not exactly from a gameplay standpoint. <strikethrough>I also have to say the part about being unable to hurt non living things is stupid since any starwars fan would've seen plenty of droids cut up with the swords.</strikethrough> (I see that the main page lightsaber made this not a thing) and I think that the main page one is ok. though I think I have a way for it to work now. it would be counted as the beam sabre but without the whole limit on it, replacing it with that it is a starting item ONLY a jedi knight could use, and if you broke the jedi code in any way that isn't turning into a sith, you can't use it anymore. I think that would balance the whole thing. also; making it grow with you seems like a good idea to me since you won't use any other weapon. Replace fire with force damage and finally count it as a 2 or 1 handed weapon in combat; a small dagger sized weapon for concealment; and let them only be able to use lightsaber based abilities with a lightsaber.

Another Version

I kinda want to make another version of this class, my version would be a tad along the KOTOR jedi. so i think im gonna do that. Summerscythe 09:11, 17 October 2008 (MDT)

I agree, it seems to me that whoever created this class, while being creative, was not altogether realistic. After all, padawan training can legitimately give you an army late game, and presents the exact same problem as the Vampire monster played as a class. Not only that, but i feel as though it was made over powered in all the wrong ways. The lightsaber in this class is more or less a glorified longsword, and the force is unstoppable. I think this class is a very good idea but should be created very differently.

Sith Taint?

Wait, wait. DC 10 + Class level? How the heck is he supposed to pass that? At level 2, he has a +3 (plus Wisdom) to saves, and has to make a DC 12. At level 20, he has +12 (+Wisdom) to Will, and has to make a save against DC 30. I'd at least make it DC 5 + Class level. Or DC 10 + 1/2 Class level (round up if you're feeling mean). Also, who says the Sith are Chaotic? -- Genowhirl 15:28, 19 November 2008 (MST)

Did you read the part about Faith in the Force? --Gedren56 15:38, 20 November 2008 (MST)

No, I didn't. Thank you for pointing that out. But, still, those are some pretty crazy DCs for the levels immediately below 19. Genowhirl 11:17, 25 November 2008 (MST)

I think of a Jedi and their "emotional management" as an opaque (non-transparent) bottle of soda. They may seem smooth and clear on the outside, but they may be turbulent on the inside. Thus the high DCs. Think about it: the average Jedi padawan is a young person trained to temper their emotions at a time when their hormones and emotions are running wild in their system. As they progress in the Jedi Order, they may become more ambitious with experience. Oh sure, mask it with words of wisdom from master Yoda all you want, but many Jedi knights are involved in long-running pissing contests. Once a Jedi gattains a level of connection with the Force, he stops caring about that kid stuff that other younglings obsess about (translating into their 19th level achievement, Faith in the Force). Do you agree with my viewpoint? Also, I may have been mistaken about Sith being chaotic. My baad.--Gedren56 15:09, 4 December 2008 (MST)

Gedren56 is correct that was my intention, Lucas said himself the dark side is the stronger of the two sides, and hence I made the saves high, but you must fail many times before you actually get corrupted to a Sith, and let's not forget, you have the base saves, as well as the wisdom mod. Oh and the sith are chaotic, before the rule of two got applied, they were constantly in civil war, which is why the Jedi were able to keep winning, because the sith were so un-orderly. It's like the ancient mongol armies, they are VERY powerful, but so chaotic that only truly great leaders had a chance at holding them together. --Sakurasboy 10:09, 14 December 2008 (MST)

Oh. So they ARE chaotic. Nice. I know someone who owes me $20. --Gedren56 11:39, 30 December 2008 (MST)

Overpowered?

So I am reading this and loving it...there is only one problem...They seem a little overpowered. Now I understand they are Jedi, and Jedi whoop major butt, but I think giving them the average base attack bonus would be best, because Jedi's were keepers of the peace before they were warriors. --Eonir 16:36, 7 January 2009 (MST)

I agree about this class being overpowered. I worked on this class a few months ago and gave it some dead levels (to balance the class, among other things) and it got changed to what's on the article page now. I don't know if the changes were made by the person who's responsible for initiating this article (not me) or someone who has a perma-boner for Jedi, but there's someone who convinced their DM/GM to allow this class in their D&D game--assuming the allowance was made sight unseen. --Gedren56 10:56, 2 February 2009 (MST)

all i put on was the +2 wis, and dex, the suggestion, telekinieses, and faith in the force, as well as the bonus to jump and tumble. The force lightning is not mind, nor should it be there seeing how these are JEDI, not Sith. --Sakurasboy 17:19, 26 March 2009 (MDT)

This evidence found on Wookieepedia [1] leads contrary to your argument that Jedi cannot use Force lightning because they are not Sith. --Gedren56 15:11, 1 April 2009 (MDT)

Yes, but let's not forget that in the Star Wars D20 game the force lightning power automatically gives the user a dark side point. So it is inherently evil, it would be like letting a paladin cast the inflict spells. In theory if you had the right back story it would work, but it makes little sense 99% of the time. --Sakurasboy 16:02, 2 April 2009 (MDT)

OK, so you're using the Star Wars D20 game as a reference for the current version of the Jedi knight posted, not anything else. Thus, the backstory used to justify the lack or use of Force lightning depends on which side is taken to achieve a desired effect. This has now become a subjective exercise; I wash my hands of this page and ask that you at least put the Sith Taint requirement on the Force Lightning/Force Absorb class ability. --Gedren56 08:19, 8 April 2009 (MDT)

Personally I would like to see a prestige class made in a similar form of the Blackguard. Where the Sith are fallen Jedi. I thought someone said they were going to do that but maybe I was mistaken. --Sakurasboy 19:56, 8 April 2009 (MDT)

Actually, movie wise, force lightening has always been a darksider only power. And in all video games so far. Also comics and books. Haven't read the wiki page, but that would have to be the only page on the net where force lightening is called a lightsider power. Lightening is by it's very definition a rage filled attack, so darksider. :P Apart from that, it's almost a useable class.

Only concern I'd have is it's power.. Yea, the jedi are powerful, but.. It has the BAB of a fighter, better saves than most classes, combined with the SU and the best abilities of a rogue (evasion and such) and some spells for good measure. This is one powerful dude.. +6 dodge bonus to AC from Jedi Reflexes, Improved Jedi Reflexes and Greater Improved Jedi Reflexes, with Jedi Evasion and Improved Jedi Evasion, great Ref saves and Jedi Master giving the class another 2 to Dex.. I'd say that's more than enough to make up for the lack of armor.. Coupled with SR from Force Field and Jedi Mind Purity meanign illusions and compulsions can't affect him.. Improved Telekenesis to finish it off. The 'jab' move with telekinesis could be annoying if it's at will. *pictures happy PC throwing enemies around before they get close*

It may work fine, I haven't played it yet so I can't say for certain. But it looks way too powerful for most games.

This Is just my opinion of what your class needs. Drop every single bonus feat, drop the Hit dice to D8 for norm and D10 for pathfinder, keep the full bab but Drop the max fortitude saves, if youre gonna be a full fighter type you just can't have full saves, so either the BaB or the Saves need to go. Other than those things i think its a cool class and a great idea, and i think you put as much time into it as i did into mine.--?? 19:56, 8 April 2009 (MDT)

This can not work as a base class, only as a prestige class, and with strict prerequisites. Changing to this class should only be by some specific Clerics or Monks, or possibly only a new Padawan class. 173.245.55.62 04:57, 30 August 2011 (MDT)

This class appears to be completely off balance and poorly constructed. It was built for Star Wars, not for D&D. What a creator must keep in mind is that your class is not one of a kind. It should be one that can integrate well with the rest of the classes already in place for D&D in order for it to be successful. As it is, I think it would be best for a recreation of this class as the basic idea is one of merit, but the structure itself resembles a fantasy of some Jedi lovers mind.

I think the way to fix this is; while normally I'm not one for low health dice, I do say, make the HD a d8 or lower rather than D10, since he does get all of the dodges. I think that they ended up making it so powerful because they looked at Jedis of starwars and translated it into d&d. Also, remove jedi lightning and absorb since they are Sith powers. I always think you can make things work, and I hope all of this helps. (PS. This is not the most ridiculous jedi. look for the one that says just "Jedi" in all classes and you find the most OP thing ever, "Force sustenance" [Cataru]