Talk:Gunslinger, Variant (5e Class)

In responce to the Needs checking through for 5e rules compatibility.

The line metioning Craft checks has been removed, it was not relevent.

Weapon stats should be removed from the starting items (they are already in the DMG).

This is correct so the stats have been removed and blunderbus has been replaced with shotgun.

As for the feature of Maintenance, jams and misfires were mentioned to be a recomened result for a natural 1. Some DM's feel nat 1s are already bad enough but for those that want to have them be more sever this would be the ideal result for a firearm. The feature then shows how the gunslinger can repair their weapon in the heat of combat by spending an action. I have moved this to being an optional class feature.

More feedback

• Needs a description and quick build section.
• There's a blunderbuss at Blunderbuss (5e Equipment) you can link to.
• You don't need to put "Ability Score Improvement" in the table, it is filled automatically.
• The two "good" saves need to be considered when looking at overall balance (not that all PHB classes have one from Con/Dex/Wis and one from Int/Str/Cha)
• Revolver, hunting rifle and shotgun are all modern firearms. Are you sure this is the selection you want rather than the renaissance firearms?
• Modern firearms do not have a gold piece value (since they are anachronistic), so Crafting Firearms doesn't work for them.
• For crafting, refer the reader to p 187 of the PHB rather than coming up with different rules. Then you just need to say how the rate of progress is altered for this feature.
• Ditto ammunition.
• There aren't any rules for "broken firearms", so not sure how Restoring a Broken Firearm comes into play.
• Grit could do with some formatting for readability, try bullet points? (pun not intended).
• Delving in a bit further down, the thing about shooting locks. Let the DM determine a lock's AC (your AC scaling is way off). I would Blast Lock simply read "You deal double damage when you hit a lock with a firearm". The lock's remaining hit points (again, determined by the DM) tells us if it is jammed or broken.
• I'll look at some more later. Marasmusine (talk) 02:54, 15 May 2016 (MDT)

Most of these points have been adressed. I hope to do a description and quick build in the near future. As for the use of modern firearms, they are closer to the intened wepon then renaissance, but that is why I had custom weapon stats. They should have a Western feel rather than modern.

• Revolver: 500gp 5 lb. Range: 20/60, Loading 1d6 Piercing (6 shots)
• Rifle: 800gp 10 lb. Range: 50/100, Loading 1d10 Piercing (8 shots)
• Blunderbuss: 700gp 15 lb. Range: 10/20, Loading 1d8 Piercing (6 shots)

With them as above I feel the benefits from Gun-fighting can be this.

• Revolver: Your attacks with a revolver gain a +2 to the attack roll.
• Rifle. Your attacks with a rifle can be made up to maximum range without disadvantage.
• Blunderbuss. Your blunderbuss gains the Burst Fire property (DMG p. 267) With a shotgun, the burst fire action uses 3 Bullets.

I understand now why you had written out the weapon stats. "Western" is still modern by D&D standards!

What firearms are available is a normally a campaign-level decision, so I'm unclear if this is a class that is supposed to work in a campaign where firearms are already invented, or if it is supposed to be able to be dropped into any D&D campaign. Knowing this will help me advise you further. Marasmusine (talk) 04:38, 15 May 2016 (MDT)

I'm not sure if this class is

The idea here is a class that can be dropped into any campaign, hence the notes about crafting guns and ammo. I feel that most homebrew gunslinger classes are reskined fighters or lack the flair I'm trying to capture.

To be honest, i dont feel its appropriate for midevil times. There are other games that support these sort of ideas. Some take it so far to make it futuristic, like Spelljammer. I do like your effort and notion however. I know i would be tempted to abuse the !!!! out of it to make things go my way, because, well i am...erm was really good at accuracy with out really having to focus on aiming...for me it was a point and click kind of thing...I am probably crap now. LOL I used to aim for the head, specifically the soft triangle part. It is soft flesh with little resistance that simply cant be covered well with out causing issues. So it makes one shot kills easy. Everything has a weak spot, you just gotta find it. After looking for weak spots for so long, you can see them in almost anything...especially in todays time with mass produced crap.

I disagree that it is too out of place, it should be fine in Eberon. For Athas you could have them use Thri-Kreen Dasl in place of metal. In other settings less so, but one individual may have spent years figuring them out and now they or their aprentice is going off into the world to put them to The test. The guns are homebrewed to be less powerful than the ones in the DMG. If a DM doesn't want firearms that is up to them, but I want this class to be the cloesest thing to the type of gunslinger they would except.

"but I want this class to be the cloesest thing to the type of gunslinger they would except." I think you have about accomplished that, in my opinion. DND turning to steampunk i guess. There is a game of that too. LOL. I dont know why killing with a gun is any different than anything else unless its our natural survival instinct saying NO to the noise they make as a startle reflex. Maybe that causes the 'negative feeling' toward guns. I am just...was just as good with a knife...if you were in a 5-8' radius of me. If you hesitated to pull the trigger, i would use that moment to disarm you...literally. Anyway bad memories...i gotta quit. I think for the aspect you were going for, you did well. And that my friend, is the bottom line. Thanks for being here and being an active part of this makeshift community...we need a new roofer...LOL

Description and quick build section have been added.

Just My 2 Cents

I love the feeling of this class! These are a few alterations I've made that I feel really capture the flavor you are going for. Up to you if you want to use them but this is the version I have saved for an upcoming campaign. I really wanted to play up the intelligence aspect as well as the misfire mechanic in order to make firearms seem more like a wild prototype crafted by an inventor. I think this change alone will make people feel more comfortable using a gunslinger in a campaign where firearms aren't around.

Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence (I chose intelligence as gunsmithing and tinkering play a big part in this class. It seemed more like an intellectual class to me)

Level 1:

• Gunsmith:
• Gunfighting: In addition to what you have, I would add the reload and misfire rules as they're crucial to the class. I have them written below.
• Reload – The weapon can be fired a number of times equal to its Reload number before the wielder must spend 1 Attack of your Attack Action, or an Action, to reload. You must have one free hand to reload a firearm.
• Misfire – Whenever the Firearm is fired in a way that requires an Attack Roll, if the dice roll is equal to or lower than the Misfire number, the weapon Misfires, the attack misses, and it cannot be used to attack again until an Action and successful Tinker’s Tools Ability Check (DC = 10 + Firearm’s Misfire Score) is used to repair and clear the weapon. Should the Tinker’s Tools check fail, the weapon is considered broken and must be repaired out of combat at half the cost of the weapon (or DM’s discretion).
• Grit (Equal to your Intelligence Modifier instead of Wisdom but otherwise untouched)

Deeds (It seemed a little too good to get all of the deeds at level 1 so I spread some out and took others out.) At level 1, you get:

• Deadeye
• Utility Shots (Blast Lock & Shoot Unattended Object)
• Quick Draw (Reworked to give you +5 to your initiative. Spending a point to automatically go first is a little too strong)
• Quick Hands (As long as you have at least 1 Grit point, you may swap one firearm out for a new one as part of the same bonus action.)

Level 2

• Special Ammunition
• Take Cover: At the 2nd level, anything that would give you ½ cover counts as ¾ cover for you. Anything that would give you 3/4 cover counts as full cover for you. Additionally, you can use your reaction to dodge the projectile when you are hit by a ranged weapon attack. When you do so, the damage you take from the attack is reduced by 1d10 + your Dexterity modifier + your gunslinger level. If you reduce the damage to 0, you can fire a shot back at them by spending 1 grit point if you have the bullets loaded, as part of the same reaction. (I noticed this class had a lot of abilities that allowed the Gunslinger to use dodge or cause attacks to come at him with disadvantage. That reminds me more of a monk or rogue and I don't really picture a firearm expert standing out in the crossfire so this was my rework. Causes the gunslinger to hop between cover, not just stand out in the open. I did keep in the projectile dodge as that made a lot of sense thematically)

Level 3

Archetype Feature (The one I focused on here was the Desperado archetype because the Judgment archetype seemed good the way it was)

• Threatening Shot
• Bonus Proficiency (Intimidation)
• Archetype Grit Regain
• Thieves Cant

Level 4

• Ability Score Increase

Level 5

• Extra Shots
• Focused Aim: At the 5th level, if you have at least 1 grit point and do not move on your turn, you gain a bonus on all firearm attack rolls equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1) with all firearm attacks until the end of the turn. (changed this from spending a grit point because with my Take Cover change, the gunslinger is all about biding their time for the perfect shot)

Level 6

Archetype Feature

• Criminal Eye (Cheap shot was taken away because of the ability at level 9)

Level 7

• Evasion

Level 8

• Ability Score Increase
• Special Ammunition Upgrade

Level 9

• Violent Shot: Starting at 7th Level, the Gunslinger can spend 1 or more Grit points before rolling an Attack. For each Grit point spent, that Attack gains +1 to the weapon’s Misfire number. If the attack hits, it deals an additional dice of Firearm damage per Grit point spent. If the attack misses, Grit points are still expended. (ex: 3 Grit points = +3 to misfire, +3d[Firearm Damage Die]). Weapons with multiple damage dice add only 1 die per Grit spent. (ex: a 2d12 gun adds +1d12 per Grit) (Since the gunslinger is getting bonus to attack chance from Focused Aim, this was changed to utilize the misfire mechanic in a fun way)

Level 10

• Extra Shots (Upgrade)
• Fast Reload: At the 10th level, you can now use a bonus action to reload. If you have at least 1 grit point while doing this, you can also roll 10 feet, ignoring any opportunity attacks that could occur and difficult terrain. (Allows the gunslinger to reload without using an attack and helps them get between cover quicker)

Level 11

• Improved Grit (total grit = 2x intelligence modifier)

Archetype Feature

• I know a Guy: Your criminal lifestyle has led you to improved haggling skills. When fencing stolen goods you should get a 50% to 100% increase in the price you sell it for. (I liked this a lot but it was just sort of tacked on before. Really works well with this archetype)

Level 12

• Ability Score Increase

Level 13

• Targeting Shot (This was originally given at level 1 with all of the other grit abilities but this felt like it should have been at a much higher level. Otherwise, untouched)

Level 14

• Special Ammunition Upgrade

Level 15

• Line 'em Up After the gunslinger has taken the attack action on their turn, they may spend 1 grit point to make an additional attack with the same firearm against a different enemy that is within 10ft of the original target and within range of your weapon. They may use this multiple times on the same round up to your Intelligence modifier (min of 1) as long as they have enough ammo loaded in the firearm being used. A grit point must be spent each time and a different target within 10 ft of the previous must be chosen each time (an enemy you have already attacked that turn cannot be targeted again). Each grit point spent adds a +1 to the weapon’s misfire chance (using 3 grit points in one round adds +3 to the firearm’s misfire chance). If any of these shots miss, the ability ends early. (A super fun "action surge" like ability that plays around with the misfire mechanic)

Level 16

• Ability Score Increase

Level 17

Archetype Feature

• Forever on the Run At the 17th level, you have learned exactly how to give the law the slip in a chase, whether ducking into an allyway or weaving through a crowd. You can't be tracked by nonmagical means, unless you choose to leave a trail and will almost always manage to escape when in a chase.

Level 18

• Cheat Death: Whenever the Gunslinger is reduced to 0 hit points or lower, the Gunslinger can immediately spend all remaining Grit points to instead be reduced to 1 hit point. (Change from 1 grit point to all grit points so people can't use this over and over again in the same fight)

Level 19

• Ability Score Increase

Level 20

• Extra Shots (Upgrade)

Hello Anon, thank you for your interest in the class. I prefer the class using charisma over intelligence as ita secondary stat as my goal is the idealized wild west gunslinger. I enjoy you noticed the similarities to the monk class as it was the main steping stone to the class's development. I look forward to reviewing and utilizing your input, and would like a name/title to list you as a contributor. --Zero1323 (talk) 21:49, 28 December 2016 (MST)

I didn't realize I wasn't logged in when I typed all that. Yeah dude, use whatever parts of it you'd like! If you'd prefer to use Charisma over Intelligence that's fine, but I would recommend you base your Grit points off of that well. Currently, the class's secondary attribute is Wisdom (All your grit points come from your wisdom modifier so charisma has no purpose to the class other than the character's personality). --This is marko (talk) 29 December 2016

I've been meaning to get around to switching to charisma. Will be updating soon.

Shame on whoever made this page. How dare you take an established class and break it like a member of Riot's design team re-balancing a champion. Dodge as a bonus action? Innate magical attacks AND varying damage type bullets at the same level? 2d8 damage on YOUR STARTING WEAPON!? You disgust me sir. Re-name your class to Gunslinger_Broken, or McCree_2.0, because this is absolutely absurd. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.197.10.167 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

I've a question about starting proficiencies and equipment. Why would a gunslinger begin with a shortsword if they aren't proficient? PunnyDM12 (talk) 20:13, 4 October 2018 (MDT)