Talk:Dragon (5e Race)

i like the idea of this. but i feel at the begining levels you should be a dragon wyrmling and make them a bit weaker but at higher levels make them like young and adult.--Erlek Thunder weaver (talk | contribs | email) 09:03, 31 May 2018 (MDT)

Split

I didn't realize until after I made the split that it has a 'composite character' category. Is this an actual thing? I thought race, and class pages were supposed to be entirely seperate? I've seen a couple times where both a race, and a class, have the design note that they're supposed to be mutually exclusive. I apologize if I just messed stuff up. Coaldstone (talk) 08:48, 16 January 2019 (MST)

I've seen these around and ignore them because there isn't consensus on the best way to handle it. Feel free to start the discussion and good luck! ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 09:04, 16 January 2019 (MST)

Hey There

Stumbled upon this race and saw the class that went with it and really enjoyed it, went through and did some very minor changes (mostly clarifying implied information) and I want your feedback on it, hope you enjoy. Notdndwiki

Merge

Not saying it's necessary, but it would make sense to merge this page with Dragon (5e Class) similar other composite characters like Frost Demon (5e Race) and Chimera (5e Class). They're clearly meant to work together semi-exclusively, and it would simplify the character creation process, or at the very least page-flipping.--Ref3rence (talk) 21:51, 27 April 2020 (MDT)

I'd agree. Red Leg Leo (talk) 07:05, 28 April 2020 (MDT)

We need extra rules for Silver and Gold Dragons

What if you take the form of a winged dragonborn? Then you could fly AND use your breath weapon. You would also have hands. And what if a player uses their shapeshifting ability to pose as a member of your BBEG's crew? Then they wouldn't have to go through any of the fights the DM has prepared and get the loot without deserving it. We need extra rules for the shapeshifting feature, perhaps restricting it to silver and gold dragons?

FlickerTheFlareon (talk) 02:10, 21 February 2021 (MST)

Grammar

Tried to start wording this better, I only managed to do the first three though. Can someone give me feedback if it's better or worse? --~ Squar3 (talk) 10:30, 19 March 2021 (MDT)

For the most part, the grammar looks better. With that said, I have already gone through the sections you worked on, and the background description latter in the race hasn't been touched and still needs a lot of work(I did work to the chromatic dragons section).--Blobby383b (talk) 12:22, 19 March 2021 (MDT)

Gem Dragons?

With Fizban's out, it would be interesting for this homebrew page to expanded to encompass being able to play as a gem dragon. --ZarHakkar (talk) 12:52, 19 February 2022 (MST)

Is the Class Underpowered?

It seems weak compared to the core classes, and just underpowered in general. For example, it gets a 1st level spell as a feature at 18th level. I could understand that at anywhere between 1st-5th, but 18th is just bad. The class's damage will fall off very quickly compared to other martials because of Extra Attack (greatsword fighter with EA outdamages Multiattack 2, by the way), and being locked out of spells doesn't help, although the breath weapon will keep it relevant, unless targets succeed the save and it's wasted. Being locked out of nearly all equipment is also pretty bad, but it's still manageable if you're dedicated (see Monk) and creative enough. Lastly, the class doesn't get any subclasses. I get this is supposed to be balanced out with the combination of the race and class, but it just doesn't do enough, especially compared to other combinations. I had several ideas, some are minor and some are major changes to features, that I thought could work without breaking the class:

• Increase the hit die to 1d12. It feels like it should've already had it.

• Increase breath weapon DC to 10 + CON mod. + pro. bonus. The two points will make a huge difference in preserving the party's resources, and helping you to not waste it as often.

• Frightful Presence should last for 1 minute on a failed save, allowing repeated attempts to succeed at the beginning of a turn.

• 9th level Enhanced Breath Weapon should give a third use. It feels like it was forgotten.

• Draconic Vigor should grant the benefits of the Tough feat as well, as that would give you more utility.

• Large size should triple carrying capacity, not double, although that's more of a correction in my mind (this is according to the actual size chart; Large bipeds get 2x carry capacity, quadrupeds get 3x). Additionally, it should raise the maximum of your STR, DEX, and CON Ability Scores to 24, and increase them by 4 each. This class is very MAD and also relies heavily on these three Ability Scores.

• Tail Sweep should have the same reach as your claws and bite. Not sure why it doesn't.

• Enhanced Senses should grant Blindsight out to a range of 30ft, possibly instead of its first effect, considering it's something dragons have, but with less range.

• Comprehend Languages should grant the benefits of Tongues as well. Not much more can be done here without either overhauling the feature or making it overpowered.

• 20th level Enhanced Breath Weapon granting two levels of exhaustion on a roll of 26-50 is a death sentence. It should only be one.

Also, 14th level isn't being used for anything, except for an offtrack ASI, so is there the possibility of adding an Extra Attack, or implementing some form of Legendary Actions/Resistance to the class? That aside, those are my thoughts and I am open to feedback on what should and shouldn't be added. If any are worthwhile additions, please feel free to let me know. Dapperrogue (talk) 14:24, 21 February 2022 (CST)

Just a few points to make about some design errors I see in your suggestions:

• Player DCs are calculated with an 8 base, not a 10.
• So you want... the Tough feat as a class feature... in addition to the proposed d12 hit dice? Balance-wise, it sounds iffy 1. I'm not sure how that compares to something like barbarian, and 2. feats shouldn't be given as class features, generally. I can't tell if this was also supposed to be a tank or not, role-wise.
• The +6 ASI is a pretty ridiculous increase compared to first-party content and grants the equivalent of several magic books normally needed.

I am not sure if this entire idea is ever balanced in 5e in any iteration because of just what dragons are. Going too close to monster design is too strong particular for low-mid gameplay. Innate spells might bump up its power, but I am conservative on calling it too underpowered to warrant such an increase in versatility and power for now.--Yanied (talk) 14:12, 21 February 2022 (MST)

Thanks for the insight. Regarding the points you brought up, would something like this work better?

• Keep the DC at 8 + CON mod. + pro. bonus.

• Remove benefits of Tough feat, but keep the d12 hit dice.

• The Ability Score maximum increase to 24 for STR, DEX, and CON, along with a +4 to each of them, exists because the class relies heavily on those and CHA. An increase in size allowing an increase in physical Ability Scores made sense to me. Barbarian has a similar feature, but it gets it later, and while it does provide the benefits of those books, as you stated, I believe Barbarian's does as well.

As for Legendary Actions/Resistances, it could be tedious to create Actions a feature without making them essentially inferior versions of your abilities, or choosing to succeed on a save for Resistance. Between the two, Extra Attack would probably be a better/safer choice. As for how innate spellcasting would work, I imagine the spells you are given spells based on your color at certain levels, similar to how paladin is granted spells based on its Oath, allowing you to cast them at will? Or would there just be a spellcasting table added, with Cleric, Sorcerer, and/or Wizard spells available? Dapperrogue (talk) 16:59, 21 February 2022 (CST)