Talk:Dark Knight, Variant (5e Class)

Lots of Concerns

Hey there! I know the class isn't complete yet, but I have a few concerns about the class so far. Let me explain.

• It is a class that gets a d12 hit die, up to 4 attacks on a turn, proficiency in all armor and weapons, and half spell casting. This alone makes it much stronger than any first-party class, as it combines the main feature of the fighter with a d12 hit die and half spell casting.
• It has a total of 23 unique features across the class, which is more than any first-party class. Even if you add the subclass features as unique features, it still has more than any normal class.
• It is riddled with grammar errors, making it nearly impossible to read or understand. I'm sorry if I misunderstand the abilties of the class, and if I do it is likely because of this.
• The "Spells of Darcness" ability is very poorly worded, and I don't really understand what it does. However, from my understanding, you kill a creature that can cast spells and then steal their spells. You can then cast these spells as your own. This means that they have no restricted spell list and no cap to the number of spells they can hae prepared at a time, which can be very overpowered. It also includes a table with a list of ranges of points for spell levels. I don't know what this is about, but I know that it does not fit 5e standards.
• Weapon Training is basically a flat-out +2 to hit with any swords at first level. This alone is very overpowered. I don't really understand the rest of it, but it seems like you can use a bonus action to gain a bunch of extra Sword Points, and then you can spend 1 Sword Point to gain advantage on an attack roll. While this is poorly worded, it seems very overpowered.
• Slated Earth, Spikes of Hate, and Army of Shades are all major features which come on an ability score improvement, which is a big no-no.
• Masterful Resistance allows you to get resistance to two types of damage of your choosing, and then later gives you resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. At lower levels (6th-10th level, when you get this feature), this can be gamebreaking.
• Dark One's Luck basically allows you to get a 50% chance of negating any attack that hits you. This is slightly negated by the fact you can use it once per round, but it still allows you to use it every single round. Do I need to explain why this is overpowered?
• Stalawart Soul allows you to gain a bunch of temporary hitpoints WHICH STACK WITH OTHER TEMPORARY HITPOINTS at will, and you regain hitpoints when you kill a creature. This is very powerful.
• Pain Absorption allows you to negate half of all damage done to you, as the other half of the damage done to you gets reflected upon your enemies when you leave the stance.
• Unknown To Death allows you to die, then come back to life instantly with full HP. You also become immune to old age, diseases, and poisons. This means you are practically unkillable.
• I neglected to mention a bunch of other features. However, this does not mean these features are not overpowered. Almost every feature in this class needs to be reworked to make it playable.
• It has no subclasses. This is major- every class must have subclasses. I know this is incomplete, but do remember to add subclasses later.

I am going to put a needsbalance and a grammar template on this, and then leave it for someone else to fix later. This is a very, very overpowered class that needs drastic edits to even be considered as balanced. Please, someone fix this. The grammar is terrible, the abilities are gamebreaking, and I don't even know how to begin fixing it. --MarshDASavage (talk) 06:27, 16 March 2021 (MDT)

In Process

• Subclasses are in progress of being made
• All feats have been nerfed and re worded to be more understandable
• Grammar is fixed for the most part with an error here and there that is still being fixed
• Still working out the shadow point system for it is a bit strange
• Was changed from a 12D hit points to 10D
• Magic spells are being fine tuned

--FireWolfT22 (talk) 05:20, 17 March 2021 (PST)

Hey, FireWolfT22! Hey, Lavie! I just want to thank you for fixing up this class. Classes on the wiki should be as balanced as possible, so you are doing a great service to the wiki. I will try to help fix the abilities as well. Thank you guys so much for everything you've done!

Also, FireWoltT22, please don't delete pages from the Talk Page. The talk page is a discussion for everyone to contribute to, as it is a place for everyone to voice their opinions about the class. If you delete a page from the talk page, it is harming the wiki instead of helping it, as it is basically deleting someone else's voice. Plus, a lot of the issues from my previous post still need to be fixed, so it should not be completed until all the issues are addressed.

Thank you both so much! --MarshDASavage (talk) 07:14, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

Recommendations

I've taken a look at the current version and here is my take on it, format and balance wise:

Format wise

• I would recommend putting The Darkness in a table like the shadow sorcerer does.
• Shield prof. is repeated
• Vitality Drain: It should have the number of uses stated somewhere (I guess it is only one but it isn't clear rn). "Inflicting damage" is really open ended so I would recommend changing it to hitting with an attack. Also, I don't quite get what does this feature do. Does it restore HP the first time? On each of your attacks for 1 min? Do you recover hp once during that time but you get to choose when? If so, how do you activate that healing?
• Master of Souls: "If you or the body are disturbed...". In any case, you could take a look at the Phantom Rogue's Tokens of the Departed for mechanics, which does something similar.
• Aura of Darkness has some mechanical problems. First of all, you must state when do they take the necrotic damage (at the start/end of their turn, for example. Take a look at Wall of Fire for this). Secondly, a big part of the frightened condition relies on the target being able to see you. This can be made incredibly difficult if you are trying to create a Darkness-like area (in which case the Dark Knight wouldn't be able to see through it either). If not, then the wording is fine (saying it is "magical" darkness does not impede darkvision from ignoring it). Ah, and say that they have to make the st if they enter or start/end their turn in the area, else they won't be affected if you are the one approaching.

Balance wise

I can't really decide if this will be overpowered or underpowered since most of it is still in process, but I'll give a couple of suggestions:

• Rn the only social/utility feature is Master of Souls, and it is really unreliable (not a lot of spells to help, either). Purely combat focused classes are fine (coughcoughfightercoughcough) but having something flavourful to do with your character is pretty cool and it really helps define your character out of combat (at least in my case), so having something like that from the class is nice.
• From what I've read, the class doesn't have any core feature (such as the paladin's smite and lay on hands, rogue's sneak attack, druid's wild shape, etc). I don't know if you plan on putting that in the subclasses buuuuut keep that in mind.

All in all, it looks very promising and the themes for the subclasses are looking nice too (if anything, they are too similar, but we'll see how do the mechanics work out). Draelm (talk) 10:51, 17 March 2021 (MDT)

Subclasses are just fluff notes for me to fill in later right now. Definitely plan on making them unique. Lavie (talk) 10:54, 17 March 2021 (MDT)