Talk:Challenger (5e Subclass)

This concept and focus is interesting but it risks being extremely loaded and very good at taking out bosses, which, if paired with good control role teams, could be pretty devastating. This effect is even augmented against endgame spellcasting bosses.

• You gain a whopping bunch of benefits taken from fighter, as well as a great AC buff. Front-loaded and sufficient as a 3rd level boost on its own or even lessened.
• The challenger's main feature is normally limited by its scope and lack of efficiency against larger mobs. However, with the additional boosts in numbers in later levels, this becomes incredibly effective even against long-ranged enemies when paired with cunning action (dash). This also removes the limit on sneak attack and gives your damage a boost. Save for HP reduction, there's also no way to end a duel. If anything, this is, for all intents and purposes, much better than compelled duel.
• 9th level gaining critical boost ALONG with extra attack is a lot compared to even fighter advancement.
• One for All is a bit strange. First is the expending of 2 uses. It would make it more balanced to just spend all your uses, I think, especially since this range moves with you. How does that even work? Are the challenged creatures just not challenged any more once they leave the range? Are they marked forever?
  • Yet another AC buff, and this one feasibly stacks with the initial buff from 3rd level!! This would break bounded accuracy for sure...
  • Because of how this feature is worded ("in addition to Challenger"), this means the damage climbs 3 "steps" from the base.
  • immunity to all spells and abilities requiring those saves means you can go and not get hurt by a lot of spellcasting abilities, in addition to already closing the gap and then wailing on the boss yourself.

Overall, this needs a bit of a cull to bring it in line with other rogue subclasses. It's very battle-oriented, which is a little meh for rogues, who usually have a nice mix of out-of-combat utility, compared to something like a fighter, which this sounds more like.--Yanied (talk) 09:58, 3 July 2023 (MDT)