Talk:Boon of True Immortality (5e Epic Boon)

A couple counterpoints to the Needsbalance tag this boon has

• Epic Boons don't need to be balanced amongst each other, as it's ultimately up to a GM's decision when they assign it. I don't believe there's any hard rules governing when they're given out. If a GM doesn't like this boon, they don't have to grant it.
• Calling it unfun really depends on the table. If you're a bunch of stat fiends who would rather engage in combat then tell a story, then yes, this boon will probably take the fun out of risking death. If you're a bunch of seasoned roleplayers who love telling a story, your GM is going to avoid killing off PCs anyways. This boon instead becomes a way for the GM to not be afraid of killing the player. Furthermore, it can lead to interesting roleplay and character concepts.
• Keep in mind there are plenty of risks and punishments other than death. Every GM should know what they are.
• It may not be that overpowered, considering in the late game, a PC should have the resources to revive allies anyways. It comes with the downside of no death saving throws, too.
• It is definitely more powerful in the early game, when resurrection is tougher, I will grant you that.
• Granting it as part of a background would be iffy, for sure... and that's why I included a design disclaimer AND a somewhat hefty optional penalty.
• According to Geodude, if he was going to munchkin, he'd prefer to take the Pirate background and just make a build that makes it less likely to hit 0 hit points in the first place.

(Varkarrus (talk) 09:59, 18 May 2018 (MDT))

So when you die you just come back to life at dawn pretty cool but i do have a question why would any one want to be immortal.--Alucarddragonborn (talk) 11:14, 18 May 2018 (MDT)

I wrote a whole Background, Immortal revolving around this epic boon. In it, I explore multiple angles towards immortality. There are people who want to live forever to see the world constantly grow, those who fear death, and those who want to use immortality for good. Then I also included people who don't want to be immortal, but are immortal anyways, and I explore how THAT can affect them. Maybe they're afraid of losing people, or they're just plain old tired of living. (Varkarrus (talk) 12:00, 18 May 2018 (MDT))

To me, a straight "you don't die" is about as fun as "you kill stuff in one hit." It removes a great deal of risk. Mechanically speaking, this boon gives you is an at-will 9th-level spell without the large material cost. I know boons can vary in power, but they should be roughly in the same ballpark. The "you don't have to use it" rationale doesn't work on this wiki, I'm afraid: we wouldn't have a "you kill stuff in one hit" boon either.

A possible fix is: "If you are dead, you are effected by the resurrection spell at dawn, as long as you have the material component for the spell on your person." The rest is waffle, and if the character wants to be ageless, the DM should grant them the boon of immortality (either at the same time or not, it shouldn't be duplicated in this boon). Marasmusine (talk) 09:39, 19 May 2018 (MDT)

Boons are rewards for 20th level characters. I'm not going to say "no you can't give it to a 1st level character", but it shouldn't be in our general list of backgrounds either, you can't just drop it into a regular campaign. I suggest moving it to a sourcebook where you can describe your version of this reward, what kind of campaign would have the reward for 1st level characters, and what the ramifications are. Marasmusine (talk) 09:43, 19 May 2018 (MDT)

Look, there's a difference between making a blatantly overpowered ability, one that takes fun out of the game, and putting "if you don't like it, don't use it" on it, vs putting the same disclaimer on an ability that has pros and cons, that opens new avenues for roleplaying, but is ultimately not an ability that fits in every table. If you are sitting at a table with a GM who is loathe to kill PCs off, you could start with this boon, including its -1 penalty to hit points and its removal of death saving throws, and be WEAKER than every other PC, as the GM will have an excuse to kill you. Or, lets say you have an average GM, one who doesn't mind killing players off from time to time... In this case, the boon reduces the penalties of losing a fight, but it still makes you overall more likely to lose. The place where this boon probably doesn't fit in is in a high lethality game where players fully expect to make many character sheets over the course of the game. Just the last thing I'll say for now, when I made the original background, the most important part of it in my mind was the character concepts and dynamics that would be created from it. Both a player and a GM can have a lot of fun with an undying character. The player can explore their immortal PC's mentality, with that character lamenting (or celebrating) their undying nature. The GM, in turn, can murder the immortal player repeatedly (and a good GM could threaten the immortal player with consequences other than death). And the fellow players can enjoy this two-sided spectacle without necessarily having their spotlight stolen, because as I said before, being immortal doesn't necessarily make you more powerful. (Varkarrus (talk) 20:27, 19 May 2018 (MDT))

Do you have any specific issue with the simple adjustment of 1) requiring the character to have the material components for resurrection (or true resurrection if you prefer), and 2) giving the DM the freedom to award the Boon of Immortality before, after, or at the same time as this boon, instead of incorporating it. Marasmusine (talk) 15:59, 23 May 2018 (MDT)

The latter, not so much. The former? I feel it defeats the roleplaying purposes, as it's supposed to allow characters who are trying to find an actual way to die. (Varkarrus (talk) 17:55, 23 May 2018 (MDT))

"Not so much" isn't an argument. In your "roleplaying" case, you seem to be implying that the boon is a sort of curse for a particular narrative agreed between DM and Player. Firstly, this isn't indicated on the page anywhere. Secondly, you shouldn't assume that this narrative is in play: do assume that the boon can be granted as a reward in the normal way. Thirdly, since the immortality can be removed, the whole thing pointless: I get the boon as a reward, and keep it for as long as it benefits be, then when I want to die, have wish cast to remove it. Marasmusine (talk) 02:45, 1 June 2018 (MDT)

By 20th level, a free true resurrection every day, plus the costs this boon gives, is really not that big a deal. By then, the party should be able to cast that spell pretty much whenever anyways. Meanwhile, if the player starts with it at level 1, they won't have access to a Wish to remove it anyways. (Varkarrus (talk) 22:44, 7 June 2018 (MDT))

1) I see, so as a normal reward, you are assuming that every party always has a high level cleric available, with an unlimited supply of the material component?

2) And again, the page says nothing about "starting with it at level 1" so that should not be factored in. That needs to be taken to your campaign page, or your sourcebook, or whatever. If you're making the effects of true resurrection, a 9th-level spell, available at 1st level, then saying that this other 9th-level spell, wish, isn't available, these are important campaign-level decisions. Marasmusine (talk) 16:15, 9 June 2018 (MDT)

This boon has been playtested!

Yes, it is powerful. No, it is not overpowered. It is not meant for every table. There is a design disclaimer on it that says as such. It comes with several optional downsides so that the GM assigning this boon can decide how best to apply it. It is loads of fun to have. If the GM feels stakes are completely ruined by having their PC be immortal, they aren't being creative enough. Boons do not need to all be equivalent in terms of strength, as there are no mechanics to decide when a player should get a boon and which; it is entirely up to the GM's whims when to apply them. What more is it gonna take to convince you guys this boon is fine? Varkarrus (talk) 16:12, 31 January 2019 (MST)

Similar Boon

Boon of the Undying (5e Epic Boon) predates this by about a year (although note I've just made a major edit to balance it), with basically the same function of performing true resurreciton. Do we really need this one? Marasmusine (talk) 13:00, 1 March 2020 (MST)