Talk:Back Sack (3.5e Equipment)

I understand the previous concerns raised so far but let me ask you this. Which one is more common now days, a gym bag or a back pack? Most people use gym bags more then back packs, unless your in school or a serious outdoors enthusiast and ex-military to boot. Almost everyone has a gym bag of some sort, not everyone has a backpack. Do gym bags have the same carrying capacity of a back pack, certainly not, but I've stuffed a lot of stuff in a gym bag till the zipper was ready to burst.

As far as the balance towards the game itself, this really doesn't change a whole lot of what is going on, however the additional cost is negligible when compared to the actual cost of a back pack (which is pretty cheap anyway) but gives your character a different way of doing things. More of a fluff piece of equipment that actually works. When you think of the mechanics of actually carrying and wielding a sword (or other weapon) with shield in actual combat, the advantages are more then common sense. It actually works very well.

I've actually tried to use both the back pack (old style) and back sack in the Society for Creative Anachronisms.

The back sack works much better then the back pack since it doesn't foul your weapon draw or get in the way of your shield or other equipment. Most back packs, you have to drop at the beginning of combat or be at a serious combat disadvantage instantly due to the off set weight which forces your balance to change due to the weight of the pack pulling you backward and downwards.

That's the point of it, it lowers the center of balance for carried items much lower and keeps it centered towards the body. It's made for warriors or say anyone else who needs to store items that they need to get to quickly (say thieve's or mage's).

I've always found it irritating, in game terms, that the only carrying options D&D gives are a back pack, belt pouch (huge difference in carrying capacity) or a cloth sack to carry items in. If our ancestors were similarly limited in such carrying options, we'd still be in the Dark Ages to this day. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WarSprite (talk • contribs) 16:26, 28 March 2014 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

But the disadvantages of the backpack you mentioned aren't simulated in 4e. So in the game what is the advantage of buying this? Marasmusine (talk) 14:13, 28 March 2014 (MDT)

True, maybe I should have posted this under 3.5 rules. My bad.

With the new 4.0 mechanic it would be hard to replicate in game (should have thought about that before posting it - oops) but I didn't want to give it any over powered bonus's for what's essentially a tough well made mundane item.

Perhaps it should be moved? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WarSprite (talk • contribs) 16:26, 28 March 2014 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

I could move it. Does 3.5e simulate the disadvantages of backpacks? Marasmusine (talk) 01:13, 29 March 2014 (MDT)

I believe 3.5e has a rule, somewhere, which states that if you have x amount of items in a backpack, you start having to roll search checks to get the proper item out of it in due time, otherwise you spend a round or so searching for items. Also happens with the Bag of Holding, and that's why I prefer the Handy Havresack, myself. Jwguy (talk) 03:25, 29 March 2014 (MDT)

I'm looking through the PHB, I've checked skills (Search), equipment, movement and load, actions in combat (for Retrieve a stored item; Prepare spell components) and I can't see anything appropriate. Nor is there anything in the DMG. Here's how I propose the Back Sack would work:

Player: My backpack a back sack.

DM: OK.

Marasmusine (talk) 06:08, 29 March 2014 (MDT)

Actually, I do remember a rule in 3.5 that does cover fighting with a pack but I know it's not in the PHB, it was in one of the supplemental handbooks regarding different class's if I remember correctly but I can't remember which one.

As far as game mechanics goes guys, this is getting Way to in to it, remember it's a mundane piece of equipment that any decent leather maker or tailor could make so I'd argue it shouldn't have any bonus's or change of game. It has more to do with a persons style of play more then everything else and how your character plays well or not. For example, I like to keep my characters light and mobile like they would be in real life.

After all when the ogre is chasing you to get the gold back you just stole from him, it helps to be able to avoid his attacks and not be weighed down with so much extra gear you get smeared by his attacks like your back pack loaded with everything including your toothbrush, extra changes of clothes, spare boots, frying pan, coffee maker, pick axe, rope and whatever books you want to read plus whatever loot you happened to pick up which can add a lot of weight in itself (like most players do - to be honest I've done it too).

This was my attempt to give people a different common sense option on how they do things is all.

If the back sack actually did receive any bonus's I'd think it would be towards fatigue, since it doesn't wear a person out so much to use like a back pack does. Anybody that's been in the military like I have will tell you that it makes a lot of difference between a load of 75 to 125 pounds of gear in a back pack and a smaller pack filled with 30 to 50 pounds of gear. Sometimes smaller is better, especially in combat where fatigue, mobility and the ability to maneuver make as much as or more than a difference as having the right equipment.

WarSprite

Well. At the risk of being a pest, and again this is just in game terms: The character using the back sack and carrying less weight - how are they transporting the extra weight (coffee maker, etc) they would normally have carried in the backpack? Marasmusine (talk) 15:36, 29 March 2014 (MDT)

Well, that's the rub.

You can't or you have to figure out different ways of doing it or doing without it all together.

One suggestion, don't carry hemp rope, carry silk. The difference in weight is much better. Things like that. I also found that carrying journeybread was better then rations anyway for weight savings plus since my character had a bow already, I went hunting whenever I found the chance to supplement my diet a bit but I also made my character eat a lot of food every time he first hit town since on the trail he was living on a bland diet. Journeybread plus a rabbit every now and then does not make for a happy boy but is much more realistic. Instead of carrying lanterns (which need oil) and torches I carried sunrods plus flint with steel so I could light candles as back up (since most dungeons have some wood you can make into a handy torch if needed) but investing your gold in the better light weight gear is a must though since it usually saves you in weight.

As for storage options, I found that I already had several that were designed into the game that most people didn't really use very much like cloak pockets (every cloak or travel cloak has at least two pockets, sometimes more), vest pockets and I carried lots of belt pouches (at least six - 4 in front, 2 in back) plus in my back sack I carried two regular cloth sacks so if the loot got outrageous I had something to put them in which I was able to tie to the belt portion of the back sack to carry on either side. There is a lot of items in D&D that are pretty small (for example: lock picks, flask, holy water, candles, flint and steel, coins, gems, tindersticks, jewelry, and various others in the PHB).

Believe it or not, when I used this in game (with DM's permission of course), I usually found I was better prepared then most of the people I was playing with and it worked out beautifully and best of all, it didn't effect the balance of the game at all but made my character feel more real to play.

Admittedly, sometimes it was a pain trying to figure out where everything went but was absolutely worth it if you fell in a river and had to ditch your gear and cloak to get out of the situation or drown. When most people were bemoaning the loss of their packs with all of their gear, I usually had a lot of stuff still on me I could use to get us out of the situation.

I really should have posted this under 3.5 instead of 4.

WarSprite