Talk:Ultra Greatsword (5e Equipment)

Before anyone goes tampering with this weapon, consider that it is intended to deal more damage in a single swing (3d8 slashing) than anything else in the PHB. Because it does so much damage in one go, it is necessary that it should only be able to be swung once per turn and have other very high requirements so that it doesn't tilt the other weapons overboard. Endermage77 (talk) 20:23, 1 February 2021 (MST)

About Deletion

Before proceeding directly to deleting this item, please consider that I and the other contributors made a concerted effort to balance this weapon around its uniquely high damage output. I built this weapon knowing it would have an obscenely high base damage (3d8), and so the weapon itself has multiple caps on its power that limit its potential. Consider:

• The ultra-greatsword has an extremely high price tag: This weapon's price is akin to how full plate, the best of the best amongst armor, is worth 1,500 gp.
• The ultra-greatsword is extremely heavy. Its weight is comparable to heavy armor, which forces a character to make a choice in which other gear it could be carrying with its limited carrying capacity.
• Extra large limits the number of races this weapon is available to. This is more of a conceit of common sense than anything: A dwarf or pixie would not be able to compensate for the leverage of a massive sword like this.
• Weighty forces you to make a Strength-oriented build to be able to wield the ultra-greatsword. A spellcaster can't use it, because they need their high stat to be in Intelligence or Wisdom or Charisma.
• The Unwieldy property put a hard cap of one swing per turn on the ultra-greatsword, which limits its ability to scale in damage output. This makes other weapons able to compete with it in damage at higher levels as a character gains access to three or more swings from Multiattack.

This weapon's entire identity is built around being a hard upper bound on how much damage a mundane weapon is allowed to get away with. If any other mundane weapon has a higher damage output than this (and this already has many downsides to keep one hand tied behind its proverbial back), that weapon should not exist.

I would also like to point to the fact that the ultra-greatsword from a flavor perspective is a popular weapon type in fictional media. As such, having a page like this for magic weapons to use as their base is ideal for people who want to make those weapons. If this page didn't exist, you could probably bet that somebody will try to make one to use as a base for their magic item interpretation, and there's a pretty good chance they will not know how to keep the damage output of this thing weighed down.

TL;DR: This weapon is not as overpowered as it may seem at first glance, and (if I may be so bold) serves as an important foundation for other weapons in similar weight classes to base their balancing off of. Please consider against deleting it. Endermage77 (talk) 10:43, 20 January 2022 (MST)

The thing is, it's about the 200th redundant "ooh big sword" article I've seen here, each with its own bizarre way of trying to justify the extra damage. The core game already has Large weapons (DMG p. 278). A large greatsword deals 4d6 damage and you have disadvantage on attack rolls if you are Medium, and you can't wield if if you are Small. Marasmusine (talk) 06:25, 21 August 2022 (MDT)

I wrote this piece because I wanted to put a definitive, hardline cap on how big "ooh big sword" is allowed to be in the hands of a player. This weapon holds the silver crown for the second highest average damage (13.5) of any non-anachronistic mundane melee weapon on the wiki (second to only the Legendary Spork). I made it as so because I intended it to represent the upper limit of how high damage is allowed to go, and the weapon's mechanical identity is balanced around this accordingly.

That, and having a distinct article for "ooh big sword" helps out writers who want to make magic weapons with this thing as the base. It's a bit cumbersome to spell out "This is a Large weapon" or trot out specific stats every time you want to write out a magical Ultra Greatsword, when it would be much easier to simply link back here. A couple currently-existing articles already do this.

Also, there is no Large weapons rule. It's at best a suggestion to homebrew writers on how to calculate damage dice when you describe a monster statblock's attack as a weapon attack. I can see how people would want to treat it as a hard rule given how it describes the size limitations of a big monster's weapon, but I don't personally believe it to be intended for anything resembling player use, considering how the very spell that lets one become big and use oversized weaponry doesn't follow this guideline. If anything, I think that clause was put there so that someone could screw the monster out of being able to use their weapon by shrinking them, rather than the converse of taking it for themselves by enlarging themself.

Finally, I just really like big sword. Endermage77 (talk) 07:55, 21 August 2022 (MDT)

I had a few more notes in response to the bullet points above.

* Can the cost of an item be used to balance extra damage? The cost of a mundane item is used in two ways: 1) it can affect a starting PCs equipment loadout, 2) after that, it's a guide as to 'when you can get the item (after your first expedition, second, etc.) You either have the item or not. The cost is not a balancing factor.

* Does the weight of 70 lbs balance the extra damage? A PC with Strength 19 can carry 285 lbs. She can wear full plate and carry an ultra greatsword and this does not diminish the effectiveness of the weapon. Weight is not a balancing factor. (I also note that a Large-sized greatsword would weigh a mere 48 lbs).

* Does the Strength 19 requirement matter? If I don't have Strength 19, I'm not using the weapon. If I do have Strength 19, this is not balance the extra damage.

* Extra Large. You can either use the item or not. This is not a balancing factor.

* Unwieldy is like the "loading" property of the heavy crossbow: compare the difference between a heavy crossbow and a longbow. You could argue for a 2d8 sword.

Historically the wiki has been so inundated with "big mundane sword" articles - buster sword, massive greatsword, odachi, fullblade, great machette, titan scimitar, to name but a small fraction - that it became a running joke. Along with "big" versions of every other weapon you could mention - greatspear, great maul, great club, guando, massive greataxe, giant club, etc, etc - there was an attempt at just making one variant rule that you could apply to any weapon: Oversized (5e Variant Rule). Marasmusine (talk) 09:56, 21 August 2022 (MDT)

Is the inundancy of Big Weapon pages really a problem? I don't personally think so. Even vanilla D&D dabbles in this a little bit, given it felt the need to distinguish Greatclub from Club; Maul from Warhammer; Greataxe from Battleaxe; and yea, Greatsword from Longsword.

I think making a distinction between "A big weapon" and "A weapon that is big" is important, because it gives homebrew writers who make other kinds of content (such as magic weapon writers) a springboard for envisioning more kinds of stuff. Everybody was already making "Stupid huge sword" magic weapons before, but because there was no Ultra Greatsword to start from, they just used the Greatsword instead and then stumbled over their wording trying to say it was actually much bigger than a Greatsword really is. Having pages for big weapons helps keep these peoples' stories straight.

The oversized page is nice, but it's not useful for this purpose because it bundles all of these weapons on a single page, tucked away in a completely unrelated section of the wiki.